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Author Topic: Weasel words from Adobe on Lightroom  (Read 10531 times)
john beardsworth
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 05:39:37 AM »
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In any case, they don't show the split of profit (net income) by business segment.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 05:40:05 AM »
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They gave a crazy stat that their sales on Adobe.com had increased by 37% by redesigning their sales site.
What they failed to mention was this coincided with changing their distribution policies so that independent dealers, Amazon etc became more expensive than buying direct (which previously hadn't been the case), plus it also occurred when the whole upgrade debarcle was in progress and people thought they need to upgrade now or wouldn't be eligible for future upgrades.

Indeed. I even had to cancel an outstanding order (2 weeks) for Photoshop CS6, because my dealer couldn't deliver at all, while at the same time the boxed product was on local stock at Adobe, delivered the next day, same price (thus including the dealers gold plan commission going into their own pocket). The coerced upgrade, to be allowed to upgrade to CS7 will probably also have boosted sales, temporarily, as will the decision to stop the perpetual use license.

Quote
They'll now go on to claim even greater improvements due to the site design, but will probably fail to mention that the only way of buying most Adobe products will now be direct.

And thus cutting out their software dealer network, who are also pissed. Yet, while the discount structure for those dealers is no longer necessary, the prices have increased. It's all about the money, scr*w the customers, stop whining and fork over the dough.

Cheers,
Bart
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Walt Roycraft
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 06:19:27 AM »
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I am wanting to upgrade from CS5 to 6 before the cloud thingy.  I try and find the product for download to my mac on Adobe's site but all I get is the cloud options. Is there still a way to order CS6?
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dreed
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2013, 07:07:42 AM »
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While Tom didn't say so, linking a LR catalogue to the cloud somehow would make a lot of people happy, especially since he's already opened the door to the possibility of a tablet version of LR down the road.

You can do this now.

Any cloud storage service that presents itself as a virtual hard drive will let you do this as you can just put the catalogue on the cloud and access it like you would any other hard drive.
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ripgriffith
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2013, 08:15:59 AM »
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but the future is rarely what we think it will be.
The only thing we really know about the future is that it ain't what it used to be!
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KeithPulver
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2013, 09:32:27 AM »
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Despite all the words from older, wiser members ("that know a lot") I know something about business....

"I shall lie, cheat and steal in order to make money - as long as I don't get caught, and sometimes even then!"

So Adobe will do everything legal (and illegal) they can possibly do to make money  --  and if that happens to benefit the Customer that is called a collateral benefit.
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KHP
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EKJellytoes
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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2013, 09:36:38 AM »
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Well don't forget that those "older, wiser members" you are referring too also run this very forum - and that they too are "In Business". Just a friendly reminder. Smiley
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tuthill
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2013, 10:54:22 AM »
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Doing a dual code branch was impossible...and since Adobe has invested heavily in the CC, there was really only one choice. Drop CS7 as a perpetual and go all in for CC.

Until I read this statement I wasn't really concerned about Lightroom.  What happens to the perpetual license when Adobe decides that it's impossible to do a dual code branch with Lightroom?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 10:57:02 AM by tuthill » Logged
DeanChriss
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2013, 11:31:41 AM »
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Until I read this statement I wasn't really concerned about Lightroom.  What happens to the perpetual license when Adobe decides that it's impossible to do a dual code branch with Lightroom?

You get three guesses as to the answer, and the first two don't count.   Wink
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- Dean
Isaac
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2013, 12:05:15 PM »
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Don't know where you're getting those figures from, but they don't fit with their last published quarterly report http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/201212/Q412Earnings.html

We're in May '13, so the last published quarterly report is unlikely to be from 5 months ago ;-)

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/201303/Q113Earnings.html
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Isaac
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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2013, 12:32:26 PM »
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Is there still a way to order CS6?

Creative Suite 6 products
- in the "Photoshop CS6" row click "Buy"
- change "I want to buy" from "Full" to "Upgrade"
- change "I own" to "Photoshop CS5"
- change "Platform" to "Mac"
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Schewe
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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2013, 02:40:07 PM »
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Until I read this statement I wasn't really concerned about Lightroom.  What happens to the perpetual license when Adobe decides that it's impossible to do a dual code branch with Lightroom?

That's the point...there aren't two separate code branches for LR. LR is a perpetual license product that is also incorporated into CC. The differences is where Photoshop had two separate code bases for Photoshop CS6–one was the CC version, one was the perpetual version. The CC version got new incremental upgrades, the perpetual got bug fixes, so there was a code branch with software code for two separate software builds.

That's not the case with LR...there's only one build offered both ways.
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Walt Roycraft
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2013, 04:00:38 PM »
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Creative Suite 6 products
- in the "Photoshop CS6" row click "Buy"
- change "I want to buy" from "Full" to "Upgrade"
- change "I own" to "Photoshop CS5"
- change "Platform" to "Mac"

Thank you for answering such a lame question
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2013, 04:06:56 PM »
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That's not the case with LR...there's only one build offered both ways.
For now.

One benefit of this affair is that maybe we reconsider what we are doing and what is important to us - running a business on a day to basis, or making something to show our grandchildren, or something somewhere between, or a mix of things. If we can decide that, the solution becomes clearer.
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Isaac
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« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2013, 04:43:20 PM »
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Thank you for answering such a lame question

It seemed like a genuine question, so why not try to be helpful :-)
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sunnycal
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« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2013, 07:23:57 PM »
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That's the point...there aren't two separate code branches for LR. LR is a perpetual license product that is also incorporated into CC. The differences is where Photoshop had two separate code bases for Photoshop CS6–one was the CC version, one was the perpetual version. The CC version got new incremental upgrades, the perpetual got bug fixes, so there was a code branch with software code for two separate software builds.

That's not the case with LR...there's only one build offered both ways.

I run a software company for a living.

I don't understand Adobe's claim that they have two separate branches for CC and CS6. If the intention at Adobe is to keep CS and CC on a different pricing model, but at the same functionality, they would not need to fork out development on the entire product. The only difference between CS and CC would be licensing model and release schedule. Neither are impossible to manage. All software companies (including, I am sure, Adobe) have Software Engineering practice and resources in place to do this. It is an everyday thing,

There could also be question of providing support (bug fixes, etc) for CS customer. Although Adobe does not have a history of supporting older versions (e.g. CS4 or CS5), but lots of other software companies do. Old code branches exist for the sole purpose of bug fixes. Adobe could maintain a CS branch just for bug fixes while continuing development on CC branch with monthly releases, and every year or so, take a CC branch and release it as CS product. It is neither rocket science nor prohibitively expensive.

Adobe is moving to subscription model only to satisfy their investors. They are trying to engineer excuses like "value for customers" and "code branches" to save face. I personally have no problem with Adobe trying to secure its revenue stream, but I do think that they are being greedy and trying to increase their margins even as they are reducing the risk.








« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 08:11:31 PM by sunnycal » Logged

Schewe
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« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2013, 08:31:54 PM »
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I don't understand Adobe's claim that they have two separate branches for CC and CS6. If the intention at Adobe is to keep CS and CC on a different pricing model, but at the same functionality, they would not need to fork out development on the entire product.

But, that's not what happened with CS6 perpetual and subscription when it was updated in late fall last year. Photoshop CS6 subscription was updated to 13.1 and included new features and functions. Photoshop CS6 perpetual didn't get those new features and only got bug fixes (but not all of them) and was updated to 13.0.4. Due to revenue recognition limitations, CS6 perpetual couldn't get the new features that CS6 subscription got. Hence the code branch...which was a major problem and lead to the killing of CS7 perpetual.
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CatOne
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« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2013, 08:32:47 PM »
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I run a software company for a living.

I don't understand Adobe's claim that they have two separate branches for CC and CS6. If the intention at Adobe is to keep CS and CC on a different pricing model, but at the same functionality, they would not need to fork out development on the entire product. The only difference between CS and CC would be licensing model and release schedule. Neither are impossible to manage. All software companies (including, I am sure, Adobe) have Software Engineering practice and resources in place to do this. It is an everyday thing,

There could also be question of providing support (bug fixes, etc) for CS customer. Although Adobe does not have a history of supporting older versions (e.g. CS4 or CS5), but lots of other software companies do. Old code branches exist for the sole purpose of bug fixes. Adobe could maintain a CS branch just for bug fixes while continuing development on CC branch with monthly releases, and every year or so, take a CC branch and release it as CS product. It is neither rocket science nor prohibitively expensive.

Adobe is moving to subscription model only to satisfy their investors. They are trying to engineer excuses like "value for customers" and "code branches" to save face. I personally have no problem with Adobe trying to secure its revenue stream, but I do think that they are being greedy and trying to increase their margins even as they are reducing the risk.


I think CS6 was a single code base but it was forked before the 6.1 release, which is has new features that are available to CC users but not to general users.  I think CS6 will continue to get patches based on pre-6.1 stuff, and that's it.  If you're going to use CS6 you're not going to get any new features, save the updated ACR release which I think I read about.
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sunnycal
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« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2013, 10:03:46 PM »
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But, that's not what happened with CS6 perpetual and subscription when it was updated in late fall last year. Photoshop CS6 subscription was updated to 13.1 and included new features and functions. Photoshop CS6 perpetual didn't get those new features and only got bug fixes (but not all of them) and was updated to 13.0.4. Due to revenue recognition limitations, CS6 perpetual couldn't get the new features that CS6 subscription got. Hence the code branch...which was a major problem and lead to the killing of CS7 perpetual.

I addressed this scenario in my post. This is "business as usual" at most software companies. Microsoft is supporting multiple versions of its products at any give time and they are all different branches. We do the same in my company and every other software company I have worked at, does the same thing. There are at least three active code branches for any product. Legacy, current, and future. Legacy and current are maintained for bug fixes, and future (main or trunk) is where active development is happening.

Even in pre-cloud days, Adobe must have had at least two branches. One would have been the current version maintained for bug fixes, and another main development branch which would at some time become a new release.

This is not the time and place for it, but I can chart out the entire flow of what needs to be done to manage a release based, and online continuously updated, software simultaneously using 1-2 engineers and some software tools which are either open source or less than the cost of one CS6 license.


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Schewe
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« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2013, 10:19:51 PM »
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I addressed this scenario in my post. This is "business as usual" at most software companies. Microsoft is supporting multiple versions of its products at any give time and they are all different branches. We do the same in my company and every other software company I have worked at, does the same thing. There are at least three active code branches for any product. Legacy, current, and future. Legacy and current are maintained for bug fixes, and future (main or trunk) is where active development is happening.

Yep, but say there are three active code branches for any product, Adobe has Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, After Effects, Premier Pro, Dreamweaver & Muse, as well as additional apps like Bridge, Audition, Encore, InCopy, Prelude and others...so, that's 7 main apps and a host of other apps that need your 3 branch example...now say you have two versions of each app, one that can get new features as they are added and the other version that only gets bug/maintenance  fix, so, by my count, that 3x7x2...oh, yeah, two separate platforms, so that another x2.

So, you see why that 2nd code branch because of two sets of features is a big deal? You would need two branches with different features and functionality. That's the point.

Look, Adobe is pretty good at managing code, they'v built special environments but having 2 branches with different features (in effect different products) was deemed, uh, not worth the trouble so they went with subscription only. Yes, you could say they wimped out, but the CS6 & CS6.1 mess made them reevaluate offering both subscription and perpetual.
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