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Author Topic: Weasel words from Adobe on Lightroom  (Read 15861 times)
sunnycal
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« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2013, 11:01:17 PM »
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Look, Adobe is pretty good at managing code, they'v built special environments but having 2 branches with different features (in effect different products) was deemed, uh, not worth the trouble so they went with subscription only. Yes, you could say they wimped out, but the CS6 & CS6.1 mess made them reevaluate offering both subscription and perpetual.

A few branches for each product is not a big deal. I have great respect for Adobe developers, so I am not suggesting for a moment that they can not manage these. In fact, people a lot less smart can manage this as well.

I am actually arguing that the code management argument is just a farce. The move is motivated by a desire to strengthen their bottom line. Which is fine with me, except the problem is that they can not come out and say it out loud because there is little value in this for customer (individual or corporate).

« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 11:05:28 PM by sunnycal » Logged

hcubell
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« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2013, 07:30:49 AM »
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Indeed. I even had to cancel an outstanding order (2 weeks) for Photoshop CS6, because my dealer couldn't deliver at all, while at the same time the boxed product was on local stock at Adobe, delivered the next day, same price (thus including the dealers gold plan commission going into their own pocket). The coerced upgrade, to be allowed to upgrade to CS7 will probably also have boosted sales, temporarily, as will the decision to stop the perpetual use license.
Cheers,
Bart

I don't understand. There is no CS7 in the future, only CC, and I understood that if you owned a perpetual license to CS 3, 4 or 5, you could subscribe to CC. Why are people rushing to buy CS 6 if they did not need its new features?
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2013, 08:00:38 AM »
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Because they don't want to subscribe to CC, and want a copy of Photoshop that will last as long as possible.

John
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hcubell
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« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2013, 08:07:37 AM »
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Because they don't want to subscribe to CC, and want a copy of Photoshop that will last as long as possible.

John

In what way will CS6 "last longer" than CS5?
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2013, 08:47:09 AM »
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CS6 uses more recent versions of ACR, so will directly support newer cameras, plusit's supposed to have another update to ACR in future too.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2013, 08:55:09 AM »
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In what way will CS6 "last longer" than CS5?
And when you upgrade your computer, the older CS5 may be unable to run on the latest operating system.
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Isaac
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« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2013, 09:54:27 AM »
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Why are people rushing to buy CS 6 if they did not need its new features?

Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Your guess may be, whenever Adobe decides to stop offering Photoshop CS 6, that would be announced well-ahead of time just so Adobe could garner every last sales $.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 10:04:00 AM by Isaac » Logged
dreed
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« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2013, 09:57:17 AM »
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And when you upgrade your computer, the older CS5 may be unable to run on the latest operating system.

Microsoft are pretty good about that because they understand that business won't upgrade unless their apps that they can't update continue to work.

With Apple, it is a completely different story...
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hcubell
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« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2013, 10:47:17 AM »
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CS6 uses more recent versions of ACR, so will directly support newer cameras, plusit's supposed to have another update to ACR in future too.

Won't an up-to-date version of LR cover that?
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hcubell
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« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2013, 10:52:33 AM »
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And when you upgrade your computer, the older CS5 may be unable to run on the latest operating system.

Is CS6 any more likely than CS5 to work in such a case? I would assume that Adobe is not going to update CS6 either to operate on a newer operating system. After all, that's when Adobe will really have you by the you know what.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2013, 11:26:46 AM »
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Is CS6 any more likely than CS5 to work in such a case?

Well the system requirements for CS5 show:
Mac OS X v10.5.7 or v10.6
Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 3; Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 (Service Pack 2 recommended); or Windows 7

For CS6:
Mac OS X v.10.7 (64-bit) or v.10.8 (64 bit)
Microsoft® Windows® 7 with Service Pack 1 or Windows 8 with Service Pack 1

So yes, there's a difference depending on what OS you have and wish to stick with.
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Andrew Rodney
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JimGoshorn
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« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2013, 01:00:29 PM »
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But, that's not what happened with CS6 perpetual and subscription when it was updated in late fall last year. Photoshop CS6 subscription was updated to 13.1 and included new features and functions. Photoshop CS6 perpetual didn't get those new features and only got bug fixes (but not all of them) and was updated to 13.0.4. Due to revenue recognition limitations, CS6 perpetual couldn't get the new features that CS6 subscription got. Hence the code branch...which was a major problem and lead to the killing of CS7 perpetual.

OK, I have a question: Given the problems that 2 code bases gave Adobe with Photoshop, why then was it recently hinted at that Adobe might offer enhancements to Lightroom for those who subscribe to the Cloud? Isn't that going to put them back into the same situation?

Seems to me, problems led them to jump the gun and now that they've done it, their not exactly sure what to do with it.

Jim
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sunnycal
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« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2013, 01:38:37 PM »
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Microsoft are pretty good about that because they understand that business won't upgrade unless their apps that they can't update continue to work.

With Apple, it is a completely different story...

+1. I can still run 16-bit programs and Dos commands on Windows 7. Of course they can not use all the new features of the computer, but they work.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2013, 01:40:46 PM »
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OK, I have a question: Given the problems that 2 code bases gave Adobe with Photoshop, why then was it recently hinted at that Adobe might offer enhancements to Lightroom for those who subscribe to the Cloud? Isn't that going to put them back into the same situation?
Because they're talking about plugins that will connect to cloud services, relatively lightweight and discrete by comparison.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 02:09:51 PM by johnbeardy » Logged

Jim Kasson
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« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2013, 02:09:01 PM »
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Well the system requirements for CS5 show:
[snip]
For CS6:
Mac OS X v.10.7 (64-bit) or v.10.8 (64 bit)
Microsoft® Windows® 7 with Service Pack 1 or Windows 8 with Service Pack 1

Andrew, are you sure about Win 8 SP1? This Microsoft page says it's not out yet.

Jim
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digitaldog
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« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2013, 02:20:15 PM »
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Andrew, are you sure about Win 8 SP1? This Microsoft page says it's not out yet.

http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/system-requirements-photoshop.html
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Andrew Rodney
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Jim Kasson
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« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2013, 02:23:18 PM »
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Here's what that page says about CS6 and Windows:

"Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 3 or Microsoft Windows 7 with Service Pack 1. Adobe® Creative Suite® 5.5 and CS6 applications also support Windows 8. See the CS6 FAQ for more information about Windows 8 support."

It does say that CC needs Win 8 SP1. I guess Adobe has an advanced copy.

In the CS6 FAQ, it says:

"With the CS6 update, Adobe Premiere Pro, After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Encore, and SpeedGrade are native 64 bit. On Windows, Adobe Premiere Pro, After Effects, SpeedGrade, and Encore run only on 64-bit operating systems; Photoshop and Illustrator run on either 64-bit or 32-bit operating systems."

Jim
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 02:31:34 PM by Jim Kasson » Logged

s4e
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« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2013, 02:40:23 PM »
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I run a software company for a living.

I don't understand Adobe's claim that they have two separate branches for CC and CS6. If the intention at Adobe is to keep CS and CC on a different pricing model, but at the same functionality, they would not need to fork out development on the entire product. The only difference between CS and CC would be licensing model and release schedule. Neither are impossible to manage. All software companies (including, I am sure, Adobe) have Software Engineering practice and resources in place to do this. It is an everyday thing,

There could also be question of providing support (bug fixes, etc) for CS customer. Although Adobe does not have a history of supporting older versions (e.g. CS4 or CS5), but lots of other software companies do. Old code branches exist for the sole purpose of bug fixes. Adobe could maintain a CS branch just for bug fixes while continuing development on CC branch with monthly releases, and every year or so, take a CC branch and release it as CS product. It is neither rocket science nor prohibitively expensive.

Adobe is moving to subscription model only to satisfy their investors. They are trying to engineer excuses like "value for customers" and "code branches" to save face. I personally have no problem with Adobe trying to secure its revenue stream, but I do think that they are being greedy and trying to increase their margins even as they are reducing the risk.
I agree! I'm a CIO in a fincial company and branching of source code is standard practice... Either they have spagetti code, miss basic skill or lying...
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Jim Kasson
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« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2013, 02:59:47 PM »
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I agree! I'm a CIO in a [financial] company and branching of source code is standard practice... Either they have [spaghetti] code, miss basic skill or [are] lying...

There are other expenses associated with supporting different code bases and platforms. Documentation, testing, customer support tech training, providing more platforms for customer support techs, etc. None of that's free. The question is whether it's dispositive, and I have no way of knowing.

Jim
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Schewe
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« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2013, 04:51:02 PM »
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I agree! I'm a CIO in a fincial company and branching of source code is standard practice... Either they have spagetti code, miss basic skill or lying...

So, ever work on a dual platform application with over 4 million lines of code supporting 64-bit binaries on Mac and 32-bit and 64-bit binaries on Windows? Photoshop is a big honking, complicated application... Just asking because I suspect not many people have (other than Photoshop engineers).
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