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Author Topic: What's your favorite Matte Paper?  (Read 5989 times)
aaronchan
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 06:22:47 AM »
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For my own images, I love to use harman warmtone matte, but unfortunately, this paper has been discontinued.

For my client, I use HFA PR308 and Canson BFK the most

aaron
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2013, 08:32:48 AM »
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I appreciate those that have defended my post, I'm still at a loss why such a negative reaction? If this were a Porsche forum and I asked what's your favorite track tire? I think most would chime in with there favorite. I was not wrong to post the question and it was not "abusing the community" in any way.  But every one should be free to express their opinion until it becomes abusive. Chris as a moderator what do you think?
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
JohnBrew
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2013, 08:48:59 AM »
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Totally with you on this one, Marc. Maybe Jeff just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning Grin.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2013, 10:32:26 AM »
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Well so far so good lots of positive answers and I'm putting together a list of papers to try out
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2013, 10:41:22 AM »
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Prhaps you already know, but never the less: Check the spectrumviz.jar tool of Ernst Dinkla. it helps a bunch to narrow down the choice as there are only a few manufacturers, but many labels. Another good check is aaron dygart website for ink hanling of quite a few papers.
Both have contributed extensively to this forum.
 
Bythe way, what printer do you use?

I've spent some time with the spectrumviz.jar tool not 100% sure I'm understanding it correctly, the opacity seems straight forward but I interpret a flat "spectral response" is a good thing like a flat "amplitude response" in audio? that as the frequency varies the whiteness (reflectivity) of the paper stays constant? Is this a correct interpretation? Since the Proofing papers are very linear their color accuracy should be quite good and profiles would be less aggressive in their corrections? So is it correct to conclude that say for a Baryta paper the one with the most linear response would be more accurate?
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2013, 11:55:10 AM »
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A high reflectance over the entire visual range is preferred as it creates the purest white to print on. But that is just one aspect of an inkjet paper. The other factors are the ink amount a paper coating can absorb without bleeding so no detail loss happens. The two properties should deliver a wide gamut but that also depends on the coloring strength of the inkjet ink itself.

SpectrumViz only describes the reflectance characteristics of the paper. I intend to add the Dmax of black inks (three or four brands) to the data. That should give a reasonable impression of the coating's absorption quality.

Your reference to proof papers is right, Epson quotes the good gamut of its Proofing White Semi-Matte in the ads for the x900 wide format printers range. They couldn't select a better one in my opinion. It is a slightly warm paper though.

Ernst, on the lei getypt.
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Schewe
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2013, 11:57:48 AM »
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I appreciate those that have defended my post, I'm still at a loss why such a negative reaction? If this were a Porsche forum and I asked what's your favorite track tire? I think most would chime in with there favorite. I was not wrong to post the question and it was not "abusing the community" in any way.  But every one should be free to express their opinion until it becomes abusive. Chris as a moderator what do you think?

Not for nothing, but I just reread my initial response to you to see what horrible and nasty things I said to you....but wait, I didn't write anything horrible and nasty. If anything it was you who got their panties in a bunch...
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BarbaraArmstrong
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2013, 12:00:27 PM »
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Marc, your response to all this has been exemplary.  I myself could not understand a rationale for the onslaught.  In fact, I refrained from participating on L-L for a long time before my first post out of concern that I would somehow trigger a barrage such as you just underwent.  Believe me, this is not a problem that you should consider your problem.  I am not a "newbie," and I was quite pleased to see this thread when it went up.  This question has been asked in the past, but the answers continue to be different over time as new papers come to market and more people have experience with them.  Luminous-Landscape is at its best when information like this is shared.  --Barbara
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Shark_II
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« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2013, 02:20:06 PM »
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Ours is LexJet Premium Archival Matte.  Very nice surface, very good blacks with our inksets, nice gamut.

We use a LOT of it and it has the outstanding quality of being exactly the same from one lot to another.  Consistency means a LOT in a production environment.  Also, no worries about paper dandruff (which drives me frigging insane) as with some other papers (especially Epson products).

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jrsforums
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2013, 04:44:26 PM »
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Not for nothing, but I just reread my initial response to you to see what horrible and nasty things I said to you....but wait, I didn't write anything horrible and nasty. If anything it was you who got their panties in a bunch...

quite uncalled for....if not vicious
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John
Mark Lindquist
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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2013, 07:07:35 PM »
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Why not just forgo the drama?  Big deal - everyone is entitled to their opinions.  A professional often gets bored with this kind of stuff and sometimes can't help but comment in a way that seems controversial.  If anything, what the big guy said was a little rude, ok maybe rude, ok maybe a lot rude, depending on your sensitivity, but again, so what?

If you ask me he's just having some fun, or like another poster said, got up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever and just couldn't take the ambiguity of the question which is often asked without much thought behind it.  So perhaps his reaction was knee-jerk response.  Isn't he allowed to be human as well?

Take it easy, let it go, move on and glean good information from those who are answering the OP's question.

Personally, I am learning from the thread, and not just about what might piss Jeff off, LOL... at least the OP didn't ask:  "What's your favorite PS version", or who's your favorite photographer "rock star", or "Do you use floor finish to finish your canvasses, and if so, which is your favorite"?  heh heh...

Try a little humor!

Mark

PS my answers would be: None, none, none...
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jrsforums
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« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2013, 09:19:51 PM »
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Why not just forgo the drama?  Big deal - everyone is entitled to their opinions.  A professional often gets bored with this kind of stuff and sometimes can't help but comment in a way that seems controversial.  If anything, what the big guy said was a little rude, ok maybe rude, ok maybe a lot rude, depending on your sensitivity, but again, so what?

If you ask me he's just having some fun, or like another poster said, got up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever and just couldn't take the ambiguity of the question which is often asked without much thought behind it.  So perhaps his reaction was knee-jerk response.  Isn't he allowed to be human as well?

Take it easy, let it go, move on and glean good information from those who are answering the OP's question.

Personally, I am learning from the thread, and not just about what might piss Jeff off, LOL... at least the OP didn't ask:  "What's your favorite PS version", or who's your favorite photographer "rock star", or "Do you use floor finish to finish your canvasses, and if so, which is your favorite"?  heh heh...

Try a little humor!

Mark

PS my answers would be: None, none, none...

Mark, I would readily agree with you....but for the consistency of the "rude" comments.

We all can have a bad day...or even series of bad days....but this is behavior is not that.
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John
ehackett
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« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2013, 11:47:13 PM »
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This thread inspired me to order a couple of boxes of samples so I can discover my favorite.  It seems I should have one.....  So thanks to all for initiating and sustaining an interesting conversation.  Writing this reminded me that I got very nice results printing b&w white on cream-colored watercolor paper.  Please don't laugh: the assignment came from my wife, who wanted me to print photos of 2 of the CA missions to look like etchings we'd bought of two other missions.  Sorry this doesn't come to a crisp prescription, but it was an odd sort of fun to guess and try and adjust till we got good results...on matte paper that looked like the etching.  What worse is that there are many more missions to photograph...just did San Xavier del Bac in Tucson.....

Best wishes,

Ed
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Schewe
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« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2013, 12:52:48 AM »
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This thread inspired me to order a couple of boxes of samples so I can discover my favorite.

Exactly...it's useful if you do your own testing on your own images and make a decision for yourself...

Now admittedly, the OP seems to live in the middle of nowhere (which he didn't mention in his OP) with little easy access to a variety of sample papers (also something that might have been useful to mention) so he was looking for help and guidance (which again, would have been useful to mention-which he finally did).

But the original post he made came off as a shoot from the hip, tell me what to do cause I have no friggin' clue. It belonged more on DPReview than on LuLa (which is entirely my point of view based on answering this sort of crap for years, over and over).
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2013, 07:23:25 AM »
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The other resource to look at in addition to Ernst's database of paper spectral responses is the Aardenburg database of fade testing.  The poor fading results of Museo Portfolio Rag (an otherwise outstanding paper) made me reconsider using it as a general matte paper.  I do like the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth which although having some OBA content has been standing up quite well in testing.  I worked with Mark to do a bunch of samples using various toning from the Epson ABW print driver and this paper as well.  The only downside with it is there is pronounced curling of large sheets (13x19) and one has to be make sure to decurl the corners prior to printing (in my case an Epson 3880) to avoid head strikes.
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hugowolf
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2013, 10:07:51 AM »
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I've spent some time with the spectrumviz.jar tool not 100% sure I'm understanding it correctly, the opacity seems straight forward but I interpret a flat "spectral response" is a good thing like a flat "amplitude response" in audio? that as the frequency varies the whiteness (reflectivity) of the paper stays constant? Is this a correct interpretation? Since the Proofing papers are very linear their color accuracy should be quite good and profiles would be less aggressive in their corrections? So is it correct to conclude that say for a Baryta paper the one with the most linear response would be more accurate?

Linear would be good, and even horizontal in some cases. But once you have more than one paper selected, the graphs are more relative than absolute. For example, try having the four base materials (Paper Components) showing – baryta should look linear and horizontal. Then try looking at baryta by itself.

The plots can be used to compare papers for warmth. Warmer papers will drop off at the blue end, whiter papers: not so much. You can also compare papers to see if they appear to be the same paper sold under different names or brands – look at the metallic’s, for example, many of them appear to be the same paper.

The plots are also useful for estimating the OBA (FBA) content. Papers with OBA content will have a spike around the 440 nm point, ‘natural’ papers will not. If you look at the FBA absorbance – omission plot, you will see how that would be.

Brian A
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JRSmit
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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 04:01:58 PM »
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I've spent some time with the spectrumviz.jar tool not 100% sure I'm understanding it correctly, the opacity seems straight forward but I interpret a flat "spectral response" is a good thing like a flat "amplitude response" in audio? that as the frequency varies the whiteness (reflectivity) of the paper stays constant? Is this a correct interpretation? Since the Proofing papers are very linear their color accuracy should be quite good and profiles would be less aggressive in their corrections? So is it correct to conclude that say for a Baryta paper the one with the most linear response would be more accurate?
Marc
Spectrumviz gives an idea on the "white" aspect of the paper the graph together with the reflectance and Lab readouts how white the white is. Also the similarities between different labels of paper, there are only a few real manufacturers. But the whiteness of the paper is just one aspect, the ink absorption capacity is another. Aaron Dygart has published some nice tests on this. The color gamut should be added, including the Dmax.
Matte fine art papers are quite limited if you just look at the numbers and the graphs. Yet a print can give a very special experience. So it is not just numbers.
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MHMG
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2013, 04:27:45 PM »
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Spectrumviz gives an idea on the "white" aspect of the paper the graph together with the reflectance and Lab readouts how white the white is. Also the similarities between different labels of paper, there are only a few real manufacturers. But the whiteness of the paper is just one aspect, the ink absorption capacity is another. Aaron Dygart has published some nice tests on this. The color gamut should be added, including the Dmax.
Matte fine art papers are quite limited if you just look at the numbers and the graphs. Yet a print can give a very special experience. So it is not just numbers.

A good part of my reasoning with the Aardenburg "crowd sourced" model of light fade testing was to learn what end users were actually achieving in routine printing practice. Filter the AaI&A database on a particular paper and you may find real world variations in dmax, initial print quality, etc. even for a specific printer and ink choice. The tests document what got submitted by endusers for testing and how the initial print values and final print values hold up at various light exposure doses. IMHO, looking at population statistics is the only way to figure out what the typical end user result is likely to be for some of these image quality variables. "Best ever" findings are helpful, but not indicative of what typical endusers experience. My only frustration is that I don't have a big enough test results database. It needs to grow even more, and for that I need more help from the printmaking community.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2013, 07:39:31 PM »
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Having a background in audio it is interesting that color science plots amplitude vs wavelength not amplitude vs frequency so "the bass is on the right and the treble is on the left" so to speak. Marc
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Marc McCalmont
texshooter
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« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2013, 12:42:14 AM »
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Interestingly, sharpness can be thought of as well in frequency terms...

http://sean-blog.twicebakedphoto.com/2010/08/visual-frequencies.html

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