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Author Topic: "something nothing" Need Help  (Read 3953 times)
Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2013, 03:20:08 AM »
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Photography is about the individual.

If you don’t get that right away, then I see no future for you in it. Of course, your concern with photography may only be as aid or stepping stone towards something quite else – I hope so.

In fact, your very act of asking a broad spectrum of people for their ideas on your quest strikes me as the opposite of what your mindset should be: you should be busy cooking all by yourself, stretching your own mental capacities and not looking for the equivalent of tailor-made solutions from anyone else. In essence, following the ‘management’ route. Bad move for an activity that thrives on the individual’s quirks and sparks.

My opinion.

Rob C

Hmmm  I guess I should just hang it up then...

I think Rob and I are in agreement on this one, though I think he's being a little premature and discouraging with the "....no future for you..." remark.  However photographers with a great deal of experience are just trying to prevent you from going down the 'planning by committee' route.  Yes, all of us are influenced by other photographers, but in this project you have to think entirely for yourself.  By all means allow yourself to be influenced by the style of others, but this project cannot be conceived by anyone else but you.  Possibly that is why the theme is so vague - precisely to stop you just copying somebody else's ideas.  The title gives you scope to shoot almost anything, to tell any story you want (with 20 odd pictures).  What an opportunity - one that many working photographers don't get enough time to do themselves.  But therein lies the challenge - so much choice.

Jim
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Rob C
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 05:09:33 AM »
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I think Rob and I are in agreement on this one, though I think he's being a little premature and discouraging with the "....no future for you..." remark.  However photographers with a great deal of experience are just trying to prevent you from going down the 'planning by committee' route.  Yes, all of us are influenced by other photographers, but in this project you have to think entirely for yourself.  By all means allow yourself to be influenced by the style of others, but this project cannot be conceived by anyone else but you.  Possibly that is why the theme is so vague - precisely to stop you just copying somebody else's ideas.  The title gives you scope to shoot almost anything, to tell any story you want (with 20 odd pictures).  What an opportunity - one that many working photographers don't get enough time to do themselves.  But therein lies the challenge - so much choice.

Jim



Jim, possiby so, but I base it upon the reality that photography, as career, is bloody difficult to pull off.

In my view, you can only get anywhere if you are pretty much obsessed with it. If you are that much into it, you don't listen to anyone else. God knows the number of well-intentioned folks who told me I was crazy. They were right: I could have fared far better using the relevant parts of my education and connections than I did by turning away from common sense and wedding my soul to film.

I was one of the lucky ones in that it lasted most of my working years; it could just as easily have had me blow everything and find myself too old to start something else, and on the scrap heap of life. It's been touch 'n' go at several different times.

Positives? Yes: it took us places we'd never have otherwise known, gave us experiences that most people have to pay dearly to have, and best of all, gave me a sense of being my own person, of owning my life.

But no golden pensions - even stock failed to provide that!

Rob C
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 06:34:08 AM »
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Jim, possiby so, but I base it upon the reality that photography, as career, is bloody difficult to pull off.

In my view, you can only get anywhere if you are pretty much obsessed with it. If you are that much into it, you don't listen to anyone else. God knows the number of well-intentioned folks who told me I was crazy. They were right: I could have fared far better using the relevant parts of my education and connections than I did by turning away from common sense and wedding my soul to film.

I was one of the lucky ones in that it lasted most of my working years; it could just as easily have had me blow everything and find myself too old to start something else, and on the scrap heap of life. It's been touch 'n' go at several different times.

Positives? Yes: it took us places we'd never have otherwise known, gave us experiences that most people have to pay dearly to have, and best of all, gave me a sense of being my own person, of owning my life.

But no golden pensions - even stock failed to provide that!

Rob C

Yes, but Greg has not said he is looking for a career in photography as far as I can tell - so perhaps we are being a little harsh.  I agree that it has to be a passion to make a career.  Not sure if my job counts as a career yet, but I have lasted 15 years.  Then I've had to be versatile.  In the past month I have photographed two weddings, three Bishops, children in a school, hundreds of items of dentistry equipment, a young ballet dancer, and several families.  The dentistry equipment in particular took some dedication!  Talk about instruments of torture.

Jim
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bigdaddyg
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2013, 07:30:36 AM »
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Jim,
Once again thanks and I agree completely.  I think my remarks were misunderstood or I did not present them correctly.   My point of individual uniqueness is where I should have focused.  You mentioned shooting dental equipment.  There is nothing unique or artful about dental equipment but I bet your photographs were artful and very unique. 
My first reply to you said that I agree that this does have to come from me.  I digressed by trying to defend why I posted on the forum.  My main point was not the management or photography by committee and that is where Rob and others seemed to focus.  For now I will stay off the forum and concentrate on something or maybe nothing. Thanks again your post is well intentioned and received. 
Rob,
I am sure you are a very accomplished photographer.  I commend you for never having to ask for assistance or an opinion on a project throughout your career (Just kidding)  If I were a young student your remarks could have been conceived as an attack and very harsh and discouraging.  Not the route I would have taken on a forum but then again you did say it was your opinion. I was very surprised to see the "no future in it for you" remark especially since you have never seen an image that i have produced. I could be the next big thing. Wink
  However I am not a young photographer and I am very aware of the drawbacks of photography as a profession and how to be successful you must have an obsession for the field.  I am a retired naval officer who has decided to go back to school. I have been serious about photography for a few years now.  My dedication to this endeavor is unquestionable.  I never claimed to be an artist or a pro or have a desire to be either however I do desire to produce great exposure and to that I am 100 percent dedicated. I left my job to pursue another degree in a field that was so foreign to what I was used to doing.   The only thing I do at this point is photography.  I shoot daily and I have never asked assistance on a forum before.  It was actually my professor that told me to go look on the internet and forums to get ideas for this project. I never asked anyone to tell me what and how to shoot.  I was looking for inspiration not a lecture on what I should or should not be doing.
I find it strange that the fact that we are on a forum discussing things means that photography is somewhat of a collaborative venture or we would not be having this discussion nor would anyone be posting photos for critique or discussing photography.  As you said you would not listen to anyone else.  Yet you seem to have given you opinion at least 9814 times.
Cheers
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Rob C
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2013, 07:56:27 AM »
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Well, you certainly seem to have a fairly unique talent for being defensive!

;-)

Rob C
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2013, 08:17:24 AM »
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Jim,
Once again thanks and I agree completely.  I think my remarks were misunderstood or I did not present them correctly.   My point of individual uniqueness is where I should have focused.  You mentioned shooting dental equipment.  There is nothing unique or artful about dental equipment but I bet your photographs were artful and very unique. 
My first reply to you said that I agree that this does have to come from me.  I digressed by trying to defend why I posted on the forum.  My main point was not the management or photography by committee and that is where Rob and others seemed to focus.  For now I will stay off the forum and concentrate on something or maybe nothing. Thanks again your post is well intentioned and received. 


Firstly - the dental pictures were actually not artful - they were just for a brochure to be used in the trade so needed to be accurate and factual only.
Secondly.  Don't be at all put off if you are considering a career in photography.  There are many photographers making a passable living at it, and if you perhaps have a Naval pension to pay your basic living expenses you do not need to make quite as much as those of us who rely on photography for all our income.
I went to college as a mature student, aged 35, and studied photography for three years.  I cannot in all honesty say that it was a necessary step for everyone, but it did give me three full years to work on my skills so that when I graduated in 1998 I started out full-time working for myself.  So it can be done.  And incidentally, while I think I had quite a good eye, I would not call myself talented in any way.

Jim
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2013, 08:18:10 AM »
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impact-

that's what you need here,
like when Rob posts, lots of impact...
Make them remember you for makng them feel somethng.  Never in my interest in photography or art have I questioned my mediocrity.  I know my stuff has little impact.  When I do have some interest in a piece, it has impact.
I like to reason out why people may like one or another of my pieces, but in the end, to me, it's impact they all share.
You know, boom boom,, not bbbooooommmmm bbbboooommmm
Also, with your experience, couldn't you gain access to funny and interestng CLOSED sites?
Like abandoned bases closed as superfluous?
Rocket launchers disused?
Old cans of mustard gas>>>Huh
OK sorry that is over the edge
Hey don't let the hard old guys turn you away from your desires.
Who cares what anyone but you and now apparently some professors  think?
Dontwooryaboudit
You did your time,
now you have to do the same here to get past the keepers of the keys!
haha like I'd know,
but really you have me fascinated by the project title and I want to see some of the outcome.
Stick around and show us if you want,...
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Rand47
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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2013, 10:41:52 AM »
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Nobody needs to photograph it: that's how galleristas present their merchandise, and how they convince their portégés they should construct their 'artist's statements' to read.

All part of the precious pretension. Makes bucks for some! Made the offer, I'd play the game too.

Rob C

Oh, would that it were - only pretension!  It is much more than that.  The need to keep a straight face (that appears as pretension) is the jail cell of modernity.  And I think trying to express this would make a good project.

Rand
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 10:48:11 AM by Rand47 » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 11:11:04 AM »
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Hey don't let the hard old guys turn you away from your desires.
Who cares what anyone but you and now apparently some professors  think?
Dontwooryaboudit
You did your time,
now you have to do the same here to get past the keepers of the keys!



1. Don't see any 'hard old guys' doing that; why would they care at their stage in life?

2. Keepers of the keys; they own the site and, wisely, mainly leave the 'advice' duty to others. There are no other custodians.

3. The OP introduced the project as being intended to get him into a school - presumably of photography; that would indicate an intention of doing something fairly serious with photography. Had I not thought this, there would have been no interest on my part to contribute to the thread; clearly a bit of a mistake, as it turned out.

4. Old dogs learning new tricks? Not often a brilliant idea, though I do accept that some dogs are remarkable.

Anyway - I'm out.

Rob C
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bigdaddyg
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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 12:21:45 PM »
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To all
My sincere apologies.  I did not mean for my first post to develop into a flame war. I'm new here and really would like to get advice and inspiration from others with mucho te experience than I have.  After all it's about learning  To Rob I apologize.  I do feel your actions were with good intention.  Thank you.  I have looked at your work and it is very good.  I could learn a lot from you and others on this forum. 

I think I'm going to do the ghost town idea.  Will let you know how it turns out.  Memphis to California and back in three weeks or so.  If anyone has ideas on places to visit let me know.   
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2013, 01:17:12 PM »
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Well do show us some pictures in due course.  I wouldn't want to speak for anyone else, but for me it's all about the pictures.

Jim
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louoates
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« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2013, 03:04:30 PM »
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Jim, I sympathize with your situation because I went through a similar phase 15 years ago it at age 58 when I sold my last business and resumed photography. Before then I was an occasional color shooter and had advanced to my own darkroom. My best advice is to shoot every day. Shoot whatever you see that's of interest to YOU. Post-process images at the end of each day and save all your raw files with decent file names so you can find them again. Each month summarize the subject matter and you'll quickly see what you are drawn to. Each subject matter should yield at least one "keeper" per month that you should share with LULA or anyone else you respect in photography. Listen to all. Heed what your mind and heart allows. And shoot every day.
Whenever you see an interesting scene, before you click that shutter, look down. If you see tripod holes, go find another spot.
Did I mention to shoot everyday?
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2013, 08:38:04 AM »
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I didn't mean any knowledge of anything,
just that the desire the OP has is the most important aspect of the project.
It is after all his baby.  If he wants to be a copycat or if he's the most original photographer on earth,
the important part of the project is his desire.
  That's what drives my art.  I want and love to do it.
Even though the product of my endeavors is pretty common among the masses,
I am perfectly happy knowing people want me to make a show in their establishments, and that my prints are becoming more refined with time.
I may never have a show...  It's enough for me to know some people want my work on their walls.
Maybe it'll be enough for the OP to just make something he loves.
No money?
hahaha
Navy pension takes care of that,
this guy has ultimate freedom
I'd do something outlandish and get an A or an F
Prolly an F
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2013, 02:13:08 AM »
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Jim, I sympathize with your situation because I went through a similar phase 15 years ago it at age 58 when I sold my last business and resumed photography. Before then I was an occasional color shooter and had advanced to my own darkroom. My best advice is to shoot every day. Shoot whatever you see that's of interest to YOU. Post-process images at the end of each day and save all your raw files with decent file names so you can find them again. Each month summarize the subject matter and you'll quickly see what you are drawn to. Each subject matter should yield at least one "keeper" per month that you should share with LULA or anyone else you respect in photography. Listen to all. Heed what your mind and heart allows. And shoot every day.
Whenever you see an interesting scene, before you click that shutter, look down. If you see tripod holes, go find another spot.
Did I mention to shoot everyday?

I assume you meant to aim this to the OP rather than me! Smiley

Jim
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