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Author Topic: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update  (Read 31058 times)
Schewe
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2013, 02:03:13 AM »
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Maybe Adobe is moving to subscription sales because Photoshop revenues are slipping due to people like me (and many of you) who rarely upgrade.

Don't flatter yourself...the "photo market" is really very small for Creative Suite and Photoshop...pretty large for Lightroom however. Notice LR didn't go subscription only :~)
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CoyoteButtes
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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2013, 02:22:45 AM »
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Might I respectfully suggest the the sharpening algorithm does not exist that would fix Adobe's focus on the Compulsory Cloud.

Mark Segal's suggestion - along with a more reasonable long term subscription price - might just cure enough of the nausea to be able to hold something down. Either that or CS7.
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kikashi
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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2013, 02:29:17 AM »
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didn't they violate some of our civil rights and try to impose some undue tax burden on us ?

No.

Jeremy
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jrsforums
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2013, 07:50:55 AM »
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Don't flatter yourself...the "photo market" is really very small for Creative Suite and Photoshop...pretty large for Lightroom however. Notice LR didn't go subscription only :~)

I'm not sure that lumping the "photo market" in with CS is appropriate.

Can you break out the "photo market" as a part of Photoshop sales?
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John
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2013, 11:23:49 AM »
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After reading the Terms of Service some time ago I am disturbed.  One of my clients is a defense contractor.  Many of the images I work on are ITAR controlled.  There is no way I could ever agree to the CC TOS.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 11:38:04 AM »
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No.

Jeremy

how unfortunate...
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Steve House
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« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 12:01:45 PM »
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After reading the Terms of Service some time ago I am disturbed.  One of my clients is a defense contractor.  Many of the images I work on are ITAR controlled.  There is no way I could ever agree to the CC TOS.
There's no reason using CC subscription applications requires that files be stored in the "Cloud."  Your data can be as controlled and access-restricted as ever.  All it means is that your applications periodically need to be able to verify their license is still paid up and current.  In a very real sense the process is no different from the install of the boxed product verifying and activating the license key - it just that it happens periodically instead of just once at install time.  Assuming your work computer is currently connected to the web, there is no more security risk with the CC apps than there is with the current perpetual apps.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 01:50:38 PM by Steve House » Logged
FMueller
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« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 01:02:25 PM »
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Secondly the CC subscription is more expensive than purchasing outright.  And it reduces choice about when, and if, to upgrade.  OK, you can choose not to upgrade but that is not the point the choice you are making is NOT to PAY for the upgrade.  In a subscription service you pay for the upgrade whether you want it or not.


Sigh... This is about money, its always been about money. This is about monopoly pricing, it is what corporations strive to create.

Adobe's interest in providing you with a [insert buzzword here] experience begins and ends with the fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to clean out your wallet. Some of their employees, though, behave much better than their employer.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 05:08:12 PM »
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Don't flatter yourself...the "photo market" is really very small for Creative Suite and Photoshop...pretty large for Lightroom however. Notice LR didn't go subscription only :~)

I think I would dispute that Jeff, as I think you mean current version license holders for Adobe products and PS, as in recently registered for CC. Because I imagine the actually number of PS licenses and legitimate license holders worldwide, is a vastly larger number than we are being led to believe. Ok these might be people still hanging on to an older computer and older version of PS, but they are/were still in the loop if and when their old machine died, or a new camera is bought etc, to still being an Adobe customer and diving back in for an up to date copy of PS.

I also think the numbers Adobe are quoting with the 80% of customers opting for CC, actually means 80% of people who have bought Adobe products recently and had little option but to sign up to the cloud, it does not mean 80% of ALL Adobe products license holders and historical license holders, as they are hoping we will believe when they present it so.

Therefore, PS is not small beans, it is a very large world wide number if you count everyone who uses it legitimately in all its versions and who are (or at least were) still historical and potentially ongoing customers of Adobe.

Dave

« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 05:10:42 PM by Dave (Isle of Skye) » Logged

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Isaac
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« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2013, 05:45:50 PM »
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I also think the numbers Adobe are quoting with the 80% of customers opting for CC, actually means 80% of people who have bought Adobe products recently and had little option but to sign up to the cloud, it does not mean 80% of ALL Adobe products license holders and historical license holders, as they are hoping we will believe when they present it so.

The statement "customer adoption leading up to the announcement on May 6th, with over 80% of people purchasing on Adobe.com selecting Creative Cloud" very clearly "does not mean 80% of ALL Adobe products license holders and historical license holders".

Please, can we be annoyed with the license change without twisting every statement into a sinister plot :-)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 05:54:59 PM by Isaac » Logged
ButchM
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 06:49:25 PM »
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Please, can we be annoyed with the license change without twisting every statement into a sinister plot :-)

No twisting going on ... except maybe by Adobe's marketing department ... as always, the numbers they shared in their most recent blog post have little value beyond their attempt to make their decision look better to potential customers who are unaware or have yet to research the CC licensing model in detail. So in that sense, it is a plot ... whether it is actually sinister or not depends upon your point of view. Either way, those figures, as offered, do very little in the real world to prove anything tangible ...
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Chris_Brown
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2013, 11:16:57 PM »
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Q4/2012 income looks great for Adobe.
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Isaac
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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2013, 11:34:30 PM »
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Q1/2013 was reported at the end of that quarter.
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Schewe
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« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2013, 12:18:20 AM »
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I think I would dispute that Jeff, as I think you mean current version license holders for Adobe products and PS, as in recently registered for CC.

No, I mean that historically, photographers (pro and am) make up less than 10% of the overall Photoshop user base. Sorry...but that number is from Adobe's own internal calculations...Photoshop was not designed for nor mainly sold to photographers (even if "photo" is in the product name).

Yes, there are a lot of photographers (pro and am) that use Photoshop, but we are severely in the minority of all Photoshop users. Photoshop's largest user bases are graphic arts, scientific, industrial, corporate, web, design, web. All of those markets make up the majority of the Photoshop installed users base.

Yeah, I know...photographers tend to think they are the center of the universe...but we're not.

That's not to say that Adobe wants to alienate us...they don't. But we need to understand where we actually stand instead of where we think we stand.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2013, 02:12:01 AM »
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But we need to understand where we actually stand instead of where we think we stand.
That's pretty obvious. Not important at all.
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Isaac
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« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2013, 02:22:37 AM »
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Things that are obvious to you, may not be obvious to others.

Things that are obvious to you, may seem obvious mistakes to others.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2013, 02:49:29 AM »
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Why is the % of PS users using it for photographic applications relevant to this discussion?

We know that many other types of users of photoshop are also against the removal of the non CC version of PS.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2013, 03:00:58 AM »
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Why is the % of PS users using it for photographic applications relevant to this discussion?
I think because a much larger percentage of non-photographer users are using the software in a corporate environment where buying software by subscription is far less of an issue.
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Simon J.A. Simpson
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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2013, 03:03:40 AM »
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No, I mean that historically, photographers (pro and am) make up less than 10% of the overall Photoshop user base. Sorry...but that number is from Adobe's own internal calculations...Photoshop was not designed for nor mainly sold to photographers (even if "photo" is in the product name).

Yes, there are a lot of photographers (pro and am) that use Photoshop, but we are severely in the minority of all Photoshop users. Photoshop's largest user bases are graphic arts, scientific, industrial, corporate, web, design, web. All of those markets make up the majority of the Photoshop installed users base.

Yeah, I know...photographers tend to think they are the center of the universe...but we're not.

That's not to say that Adobe wants to alienate us...they don't. But we need to understand where we actually stand instead of where we think we stand.


I would expect that Adobe's figures for "photographers" derive from the 'customer feedback' questionnaire that appears just after you install one of their products you know the one that asks what area of business you are in.  Well, I would guess a significant number of people are like me for whom none of the categories is actually a good fit of what my 'business' is or even what I use Photoshop for.  OK, so I may have exaggerated a little and selected a category that sounds better than just "photographer".  My point ?  I'm just not sure how reliable Adobe's data is (to which one could add the statement about an "80%" take-up of CC).  I've worked for big corporates and, you know, presenting the best possible case for how you would like things to be by selectively using statistics is common practice.  It's also delusional.  No surprises there, then.

That aside I agree with Jeff that photographers will be in an apparent minority in their customer base.  But it is not the case, as is being argued, that photographers are the only customers of Adobe for whom the new software by subscription policy is highly objectionable.  If my (limited) researches are anything to go by "graphic arts, scientific, industrial, corporate, web, design" customers are equally disaffected by Adobe's decision, as are users of other CS products such as InDesign, Illustrator, etc..  It may be that we photographers have been most vocal and best organised but don't let Adobe's statement mislead us (as it seems to have deluded them) that photographers are the only ones up in arms about this.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 03:22:59 AM by Simon J.A. Simpson » Logged
kers
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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2013, 03:26:12 AM »
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Question - can i open PSD files from CC in CS6?
It will be a matter of time before it will be not possible- for sure...
Maybe Lightroom will be also subscription-only in a few years...
What to expect from Adobe? after this switch?
In that case Adobe has the key to your catalogue etc...

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Pieter Kers
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