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Author Topic: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update  (Read 31065 times)
Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« on: May 29, 2013, 12:18:44 PM »
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Read it here.

Dave
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jrsforums
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 12:34:31 PM »
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A lovely note....but currently the sleeves off their vest.
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John
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2013, 12:45:44 PM »
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Adobe clearly don't get it.  Or they're believing their own spin.  Although it appears Adobe are climbing down some.

The major thrust of people's fury (and I use that word advisedly) is that once you stop subscribing to CC you lose the use of the software.  Accessing our files is not the issue here.

Secondly the CC subscription is more expensive than purchasing outright.  And it reduces choice about when, and if, to upgrade.  OK, you can choose not to upgrade but that is not the point – the choice you are making is NOT to PAY for the upgrade.  In a subscription service you pay for the upgrade whether you want it or not.

Thirdly there appears to be number potential technical issues which may mean your subscription software ceases working through no fault of your own.

Lastly there is the moral repugnance of being forced to pay for something on a subscription – potentially forever – where, no matter how much you pay, you never get to own (the license to use) what you've bought.  You are perpetually tied into paying a powerful software company just to be able continue to use what you have bought/buying.


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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 01:54:20 PM »
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I think that note from Adobe indicates they understand what the issues are and they are working on resolving them in a manner that won't impair their basic strategy. I would cut them some slack at least until we see what they come up with. If they do the right thing it could be a win-win.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Simon J.A. Simpson
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 04:41:37 PM »
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Mark.

Agreed.  Apologies, my spleen got the better of me.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 05:02:18 PM »
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Understood - this development has upset many of us for reason; let us hope they do good by us.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 06:22:41 PM »
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This afternoon I was contacted (by email) by Adobe, and asked to fill out a very detailed online questionnaire about CC. They asked all the right questions about how I felt about the change, exactly what my reservations were, my usage, etc. They also left plenty of room for me to comment freely. Which I did!

I'll never know for sure, of course, but I wonder if Adobe feels a bit mislead by some of the photographers they initially turned to for advice about how CC would be received. Or at least if they are now realizing that they got a skewed sample of opinion.

Anyhow, this suvey may not make the slightest difference. Maybe Adobe doesn't care about photographers like me. But they did take the trouble to ask. Kind of late in the game, but perhaps better late than never. And I did get to tell them, rather directly, that I would probably never buy another piece of Adobe software if they didn't change the mandatory CC model.
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Schewe
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 07:59:34 PM »
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I'll never know for sure, of course, but I wonder if Adobe feels a bit mislead by some of the photographers they initially turned to for advice about how CC would be received. Or at least if they are now realizing that they got a skewed sample of opinion.

Everybody I know that were told of the CC subscription and dropping CS7 as a perpetual license told them it would piss off a lot of people...note that there were very, very few people outside of Adobe who were told in advance and the timing of the disclosure was AFTER the decision had already been made. There were actually a lot of people inside of Adobe that didn't know for a long time. I don't know when Adobe disclosed the plan to everybody inside of Adobe, but I do know that there were plenty of people inside of Adobe that weren't happy about the changes either.

What I think is that Adobe (the execs that made the decisions) was surprised at how vehemently the people who were upset would be...and are now trying to figure out what to do to address the situation.

So, I encourage people to let their feelings known, but it would be useful to do so in a manner that will help Adobe address the problems rather than make them defensive.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 08:08:21 PM »
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So, I encourage people to let their feelings known, but it would be useful to do so in a manner that will help Adobe address the problems rather than make them defensive.

I have recommended several times over that they modify the model such that people who wish to stop subscribing may retain for a fee (or free if they've been subscribing for say 18 months) a perpetual license to the last version they were using. This way everyone would retain access to all the features they used on their photos up to the point they stopped subscribing. In principle this is so obvious (but would need some thinking about implementation), would resolve the whole issue and would retain their CC subscription system virtually intact. Anyone at Adobe reading this? I would be very interested to hear from someone there why such a solution could not be implemented, but better yet, how soon they will just do it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Vladimirovich
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 08:12:33 PM »
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but it would be useful to do so in a manner that will help Adobe address the problems rather than make them defensive.
didn't they violate some of our civil rights and try to impose some undue tax burden on us ? I think we need to involve ACLU, NAACP, JDL, SPLC,  tea party and some folks from Fox Channel... that will surely make them address the problems right away, I 'd say next day.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 08:28:10 PM »
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would resolve the whole issue and would retain their CC subscription system virtually intact.
having perpetual license by itself does not do anything wrong w/ their subscription system... despite some postings from Jeff S. Adobe seems have no issues to have products sharing the same development to be simultaneously in products available under both system both accounting-wise and code-wise.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2013, 08:45:38 PM »
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I wonder what this part means:

"Because of this we have no plans to change our focus on Creative Cloud. We understand this is a big change and for customers who are not yet ready to move, we will continue to offer CS6 products through our reseller partners and Adobe.com."

It could be understood as a decision to continue selling the boxed version.

This would put an end to most short term concerns.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2013, 08:59:32 PM »
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I wonder what this part means:

"Because of this we have no plans to change our focus on Creative Cloud. We understand this is a big change and for customers who are not yet ready to move, we will continue to offer CS6 products through our reseller partners and Adobe.com."

It could be understood as a decision to continue selling the boxed version.

This would put an end to most short term concerns.

Cheers,
Bernard


Not for people who at some point would like to retain a perpetual license to products with new features and useable on future operating systems.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
jrsforums
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2013, 09:02:19 PM »
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I wonder what this part means:

"Because of this we have no plans to change our focus on Creative Cloud. We understand this is a big change and for customers who are not yet ready to move, we will continue to offer CS6 products through our reseller partners and Adobe.com."

It could be understood as a decision to continue selling the boxed version.

This would put an end to most short term concerns.

Cheers,
Bernard


Bernard....not sure how this fixes any concerns...the way I read it, these are just the existing code we have right now.   Are you extrapolating to them offering boxed versions of CC editions?  I'm not.

John
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John
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2013, 10:33:11 PM »
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Bernard....not sure how this fixes any concerns...the way I read it, these are just the existing code we have right now.   Are you extrapolating to them offering boxed versions of CC editions?  I'm not.

John,

Yep, you are right, I somehow overlooked the importance of the 6 in CS6...

So, no, it doesn't help at all.

Still curious to see what they will come up with regarding my main concern which is the ability to keep working on files after the end of a subscription.

That will probably be some form of read only capability. I would be surprised if it addressed the fundamental doubt about creating more IP (layers, masks, vector objects,...) in CS knowing that - even if a result file can be generated/opened - the ability to continue leveraging this IP is the core request not satisfied by the CC subscription approach.

Cheers,
Bernard
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kirkt
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2013, 10:35:11 PM »
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I wonder what this part means:

"Because of this we have no plans to change our focus on Creative Cloud. We understand this is a big change and for customers who are not yet ready to move, we will continue to offer CS6 products through our reseller partners and Adobe.com."

It could be understood as a decision to continue selling the boxed version.

This would put an end to most short term concerns.

Cheers,
Bernard


The whole Adobe blog post is so carefully worded and contrived, it is somewhat excruciating to think about how many levels of sign-off it went through to appear on a "blog".  The "YET" part in the above quote is interesting - it would appear to imply, in a somewhat patronizing tone, that resistance is futile.  You can continue to purchase CS6 until you finally give in and subscribe ... which we know you will do, just maybe not quite yet - but you really don't want to wait too long or you will be left behind in the vapor trail of the Cloud.

I also received the email inviting me to participate in the online survey and I took great pains to be objective and informative.  I pretty much also commented that I was aware of the CC, understood Adobe's pitch, trialed the CC for free and that I had no plans to subscribe or purchase Adobe software in the future as a result of the emphatic insistence on a subscription-only model with no ability to retain access to software that I had paid to subscribe to once I terminated the subscription.

Hopefully the execs cede some of the piloting through this storm to the goodwill ambassadors at Adobe that are able to bridge the newly formed chasm between the loyal users and the long-standing reputation of Adobe creative products.  The perception of Trust has been steamrolled and that makes even loyal people unwilling to listen to too-little-too-late.  In the end, a cynical Adobe may just ride out the storm with unflinching blog post "updates" and anticipate the mass acceptance of the inevitable after the hoopla has died down.  
 
Fascinating as always.  Unyielding and patronizing on the outside with a soft, gooey center implying that maybe they would like to know what registered users of their products actually think about their decision.  As Mark says, it will be interesting to see what they come up with to deal with the current state of affairs - but really, given no plans to change the focus on the Cloud, will the solution be to offer some token free Cloud storage or 6 months of free subscription as a peace offering?  Would loyal users be that stupid to interpret that kind of offering as a solution to any of the current complaints and criticisms?  What calculation would yield the requisite number of free subscription months to mollify an angry user and convince them that the Cloud subscription is worth it?  It will be interesting indeed to see how this shakes out -maybe the Adobe execs and PR machine can use the CC to arrive at a creative solution.

kirk
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 10:57:14 PM by kirkt » Logged
bill t.
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 10:37:38 PM »
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"...not yet ready to move..."

I deal with 3 smallish companies and directly know maybe 40 individuals who use Adobe products.  Not one of them looks anything like those Adobe propaganda videos showing too-cool renovated urban rafters full of bubbly imaging bumpkins flitting willy-nilly from one Adobe product to the next.  Should I move to SoHo?

As to the suddenness of the paradigm shift, one suspects a palace coup.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2013, 11:34:53 PM »
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no plans to change the focus on the Cloud
we shall really stop using the word "cloud" and always use the word "subscription", that is what it is and we shall not play along Adobe's marketing.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2013, 01:03:56 AM »
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The problem seems to be that they still don't get what many of their customers actually want or do. Talk about;
" cross-device collaboration and publishing capabilities.
....
allows us to explore new areas in mobile apps, helping you collaborate better and build a meaningful worldwide community to share work and find inspiration
....
 the world’s leading online creative community, is now integrated with Creative Cloud, so customers can showcase work, get feedback on projects and gain global exposure."
...just doesn't interest a lot of photographers.

We don't all work collaboratively, some of us aren't obsessed with global sharing or need Adobe to provide a platform for inspiration. Individuals aren't in their plans.
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texshooter
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2013, 01:20:35 AM »
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Maybe Adobe is moving to subscription sales because Photoshop revenues are slipping due to people like me (and many of you) who rarely upgrade. I bought CS4 in 2008 and have no intention on upgrading until my computer dies-- and even then, I'll most likely reinstall CS4 on my next computer. When Adobe makes Photoshop a 100% parametric editor, I might then be impressed enough to subscribe to the cloud. Maybe ten years from now.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 01:25:05 AM by texshooter » Logged
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