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Author Topic: Printer Profiles  (Read 1869 times)
jemsurvey
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« on: June 02, 2013, 01:19:12 PM »
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Hello,

I want to have some custom icc printer profiles made.  Any recommendations as to who to use for this?  I find many sites offering this service but would like to go with someone recommended.

Am I also to understand that when printing the profile targets you cannot print from Lightroom or CS6 because you can't print without color management enabled?  Will printing from the Adobe print utility work for this purpose?

Thanks for the help,
John
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 01:21:15 PM »
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Am I also to understand that when printing the profile targets you cannot print from Lightroom or CS6 because you can't print without color management enabled?  Will printing from the Adobe print utility work for this purpose?

Correct! But be careful as depending on the Spectrophotometer, the scaling of the output is super critical and for whatever reasons, sometimes ACPU scales when it shouldn't.
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Andrew Rodney
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Jason DiMichele
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 02:25:12 PM »
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Correct! But be careful as depending on the Spectrophotometer, the scaling of the output is super critical and for whatever reasons, sometimes ACPU scales when it shouldn't.

Hey Andrew,

I'm using ACPU for printing my targets to make my profiles. I'm using the XRite i1Photo Pro 2 spectrophotometer. I haven't paid critical attention since I assumed ACPU wouldn't have any reason to scale the printed output (as you just brought to my attention, thanks!).  Should I be concerned or in your experience should I be ok with the XRite?

Cheers!
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Jason DiMichele
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 03:16:35 PM »
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Any recommendations as to who to use for this?  I find many sites offering this service but would like to go with someone recommended.
I run www.colourprofiles.com so I'd recommend us ;-) feel free to contact me by PM or email and I'll be happy to advise further. We're in the UK, so if elsewhere you might find a faster service locally.
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Am I also to understand that when printing the profile targets you cannot print from Lightroom or CS6 because you can't print without color management enabled?  Will printing from the Adobe print utility work for this purpose?
Yes, printing profiling targets from LR nor CS6  is not recommended, but ACPU works fine.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2013, 09:13:38 PM »
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I'm using ACPU for printing my targets to make my profiles. I'm using the XRite i1Photo Pro 2 spectrophotometer. I haven't paid critical attention since I assumed ACPU wouldn't have any reason to scale the printed output (as you just brought to my attention, thanks!).  Should I be concerned or in your experience should I be ok with the XRite?

With that Spectrophotometer no issues. But with something like the iSis, if the scaling is off by say +/- 5% either way, the unit will not read the target as the control bar and diamonds used to detect each row is off.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 12:47:07 AM »
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But with something like the iSis, if the scaling is off by say +/- 5% either way, the unit will not read the target as the control bar and diamonds used to detect each row is off.
Have you tried editing the xml reference data ?
We use a DTP-70 and have edited the TDL for all the targets we use, so no problems with resizing here.
Looking at the isis reference files it doesn't look very much different.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 08:38:41 AM »
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Have you tried editing the xml reference data ?
We use a DTP-70 and have edited the TDL for all the targets we use, so no problems with resizing here.
Looking at the isis reference files it doesn't look very much different.

Has nothing to do with the reference, that's correct. ACPU has an intermittent bug that will result in the print scaled. It's a well know issue discussed here and elsewhere and Adobe hasn't updated the product since release but apparently are aware the bug crops up for reasons unknown.

The iSis XL is very picky about size. My targets have a indicator on it that customers can measure with a ruler to insure customers do not send a target that got scaled.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 09:03:34 AM »
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ACPU has an intermittent bug that will result in the print scaled. It's a well know issue discussed here and elsewhere and Adobe hasn't updated the product since release but apparently are aware the bug crops up for reasons unknown.
I've not read about an intermittent sizing issue before.
Certainly using ACPU on Windows systems the target is resized by 95.4% and decentred, but it's completely consistent in every example I've seen and measured.
To date I've not seen ACPU resize a target on a Mac system.
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The iSis XL is very picky about size. My targets have a indicator on it that customers can measure with a ruler to insure customers do not send a target that got scaled.
The DTP-70 is also absolutely pedantic about size, but editing the reference data to accommodate the resizing is dead easy once you've worked out which parts to edit.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2013, 09:13:52 AM »
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Certainly using ACPU on Windows systems the target is resized by 95.4% and decentred, but it's completely consistent in every example I've seen and measured.
It's not supposed to scale 94.5% and often doesn't (never on this side on a Mac). The solution is rather easy too: put something on the target that a customer can see produces output at 100%. It's completely pointless to send a scaled target to someone hoping to read it with an iSis, I've got no less than 5 different targets my customers can use, including the three page 2500 patch B&W optimization post profile steps (optional) that i1Profiler provides.

If on Windows you get 95.4%, what if you just tell ACPU to print at 105% (close enough for the iSis to read)?
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2013, 09:35:35 AM »
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It's not supposed to scale 94.5% and often doesn't (never on this side on a Mac).
No I'm sure it wasn't designed to scale output on Windows systems, but it does, no fix has been forth coming and I doubt it will.
Are you saying you've never seen scaling on a Mac either ? If so where is it "intermittent" ?
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The solution is rather easy too: put something on the target that a customer can see produces output at 100%. It's completely pointless to send a scaled target to someone hoping to read it with an iSis,
I wish I trusted my clients enough to let them loose trying to resize charts reliably. Too many seem incapable of printing @ 100% anyway.
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I've got no less than 5 different targets my customers can use, including the three page 2500 patch B&W optimization post profile steps (optional) that i1Profiler provides.
We have several different targets available for various purposes, but it's been no problem to build versions of the reference files to cope with the resizing. Over the years I've found that keeping the client side of things as simple as possible ultimately means less support issues.
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If on Windows you get 95.4%, what if you just tell ACPU to print at 105% (close enough for the iSis to read)?
There's no option in ACPU to scale output. Not every driver can scale output accurately.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2013, 09:42:03 AM »
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Are you saying you've never seen scaling on a Mac either ?
I personally have not but I have many customers and rarely in the past (prior to having something to measure), they would send a scaled target. I don't know if they are on Mac or not, and sometimes it's user error. The fix is easy and works. And there's always the i1 iO that I can use to read the same targets but obviously I prefer the iSis for many reasons. It's a vastly superior instrument and I always measure UV and UV/cut.

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If so where is it "intermittent" ?
Sometimes it scales, sometimes it doesn't.

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Too many seem incapable of printing @ 100% anyway.
Exactly. Scaling could be from output other than ACPU. There are too many settings to mess up. Pop a scaled line on the target, tell the user how many mm it should be, if no, reprint.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2013, 10:12:55 AM »
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I personally have not
So just to clarify;
You've never knowingly seen mis-scaling from ACPU on a Mac.
Some customers send mis-sized targets, but that could be user error independent of any ACPU issues and you're not tracking OS usage to see if that's an issue.
So you've no firm evidence of intermittent behaviour from ACPU.




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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2013, 11:11:10 AM »
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So just to clarify;
You've never knowingly seen mis-scaling from ACPU on a Mac.
On MY Mac, no. Other's seem to report issues and have since the day ACPU was released.

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Some customers send mis-sized targets, but that could be user error independent of any ACPU issues and you're not tracking OS usage to see if that's an issue.
It could be either.

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So you've no firm evidence of intermittent behaviour from ACPU.
I have no personal evidence of this. I have read posts from users who have experienced this issue and I know Adobe is aware of the issue.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=49209.0

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.argyllcms/8644

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The resizing issue was noted but I don't know whether it was ever resolved since it only appeared to be happening sporadically.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/3309536#3309536
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2013, 11:26:21 AM »
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There's no option in ACPU to scale output.

There is on my copy <g>



This video was created in assisting customers in properly printing their targets:

http://digitaldog.net/files/DDPrintingTargetsVideo.mov
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 11:59:50 AM »
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None of those threads have Mac users complaining about resizing issues, apart from YOU in the LuLa one (reply 3) ;-) later in the same thread you say you don't get resizing(62,67,115) which you have re-affirmed here.

BTW I'm not just trying to catch you out here, but if there is some resizing bug with ACPU on Macs I'd really like to know all about it.

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There is on my copy <g>
That's an OS feature, not in ACPU. You won't find that on Windows, only on some manufacturers driver options.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2013, 12:13:04 PM »
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BTW I'm not just trying to catch you out here, but if there is some resizing bug with ACPU on Macs I'd really like to know all about it.
I suggest you start a new post on that subject and ask.
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That's an OS feature, not in ACPU. You won't find that on Windows, only on some manufacturers driver options.
As I said, it's an option on the copy I've used.
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Andrew Rodney
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