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Author Topic: Pinholes on canvas  (Read 1334 times)
rgvsdigitalpimp
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« on: June 02, 2013, 08:45:16 PM »
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Hey guys.  After coating with BC's Timeless and after the first coat I've been noticing that my prints are showing a significant amount of tiny pinholes all over the print.  I usually associated this with too much coating because when I used to over spray I would get bubbles which would pop and make pinholes.  Well I"m not getting bubbles.  It's just after the dry time that I see these appear.  I spoke with BC rep and he said I'm not putting enough on the first coat to seep into the canvas.  He said to try diluting the coating with one to two tablespoons of distilled water because maybe it was too thick to seep into the weave.  Well I tried putting water AND spraying a heavier coat on the first pass and still see these holes.  On a black print those holes shoot out at you!  Anyone ever experience this or have any pointers on what could be causing this?

Since this just started happening I'm inclined to think that it might be a canvas issue?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 09:42:39 PM by rgvsdigitalpimp » Logged
BillK
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2013, 11:36:27 AM »
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I used to see that problem, I have since switched the BC's Glamour II and all my problems have gone away.

Much easier to achieve consistent results with glamour II, I would not go back to Timeless.
A little more thinning and mixing to be done, but well worth the effort.

Other posts on this forum made me give glamour II a try and I am glad I did.
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 11:56:07 AM »
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Hey Bill I've used Glamour II as well in the past.  Only thing about it is the dry time.  They recommend 24hrs between coats.  That's a real long time.  My turnaround times would be backed up pretty bad to use GII. 
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BillK
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2013, 12:50:51 PM »
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Don't remember seeing anything about 24hrs.  I wait about 15minutes between coats and haven't had
any problems in easily over 100 canvases since switching.
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 02:27:20 PM »
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Bill do you spray or do you use a roller?
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bill t.
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 03:03:36 PM »
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The "24 hour" number refers to the recommended minimum time between printing and coating.  That's really just a ballpark spec.  The drying time is greatly affected by temperature, humidity, and air circulation.  As a general rule, you can apply the next coat as soon as the last coat is feels dry to the touch.  Here in the high desert, I find 10 to 15 minutes between three thinnish Glamour II coats is about right.

Glamour II, amen!  If you're a newbie, it gives you the highest probability of success.

Spraying is the best option if you have a place to do it.  Have not lost a canvas to spraying issues in a very long time.  For certain canvases like the glossies, spraying is the only option.  If you notice your roller is getting dingy looking, you need to spray.  Those Wagner guns are OK, but the filters suck could use improvement.
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 03:35:59 PM »
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Bill I'm using a HPLV spray from Harbor Freight.  Working great.  Spray is coming out perfectly even.  I went ahead and sent another photo of the pinholes to BC today and it ended up being a canvas problem.  They are making an RMA and UPS label to ship me out a replacement roll.  Geez $275 a roll you'd think we wouldn't be having these kinds of problems.  Which canvas do you all use?
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bill t.
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 03:59:50 PM »
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Have never seen a pinhole with sprayed Glamour II.

Unfortunately, in the world of canvas cost has very little to do with being trouble free.  And in fact, I have had the most substrate problems with the most expensive canvases, and the fewest with the cheapest.  Go figure.

BC has superb emulsions and mediocre substrates.  If they would modify their present substrates to something more flexible and free of curling issues, I would be using nothing but BC products.  I'd even be willing to pay a little more for it.
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2013, 04:04:57 PM »
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Bill what do you use if you don't mind me asking?  I'm about to switch.  I just keep getting discouraged because of the OBA-free issue.  That this is archival and other competitors aren't.  I don't want to put out a "cheap" product. 
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BillK
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2013, 05:01:22 PM »
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This Bill sprays, used to roll, spraying is much better.

I use BC Lyve, have had no issues with curling or how flexible it is, I guess your mileage may vary.  Did have one 44" roll with a slight crease like defect
that they promptly replaced. Have seen a few black specs here and there. Enough that on a very large print I feed the canvas out of the machine first and make sure
any specs will not be in a light colored area or sky area of the print.
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2013, 08:55:36 PM »
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Bill I know exactly what you're talking about. I had that issue with black specs many times. Good thing they replaced with no issues. I switched over to lexjet for a while but when I switched back to Lyve I had several photographers tell me right away "wow what a difference. This is different canvas, right?" Since then I stuck with Lyve.
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Justin B
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2013, 09:09:05 PM »
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First, this does not sound/look like a canvas issue. Had pin holing before with the same combination of Lyve/Timeless with a Fuji HVLP turbine-driven gun and here is what Fuji recommended (which fixed the issue):

  • Dilute Timeless to water 2:1
  • Reduce flow of Timeless
  • Reduce hand speed when applying (to about 1 fps)
  • Increase flow of air (adjusted valve to ~3/4 open)
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JB
rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2013, 09:12:38 PM »
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Thanks Justin I'm going to try this right now.  Thank you!  Hope it works.  Have a couple of new prospects that are real picky about their prints.  The ironic thing is the tech at BC told me "Oh i know what that is.  You're not putting a coat heavy enough on the first pass."  So I increased my spray even more and still have pinholes.  They look so ugly on a black print.  Ugh.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 09:31:07 PM by rgvsdigitalpimp » Logged
Justin B
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2013, 10:17:43 PM »
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No problemo. Let me know how that works for ya. Which model gun do you use?
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JB
rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 10:26:55 PM »
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http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html

I use one of those with a huge air compressor about 5ft tall which was given to me.  Kinda overkill but works real good.  Shoot at 70psi . . air nozzle almost all the way open.  Good amount of spray shooting out.  Gets canvas real wet on coat almost with a faint blue hue.  I think I'm spraying too much. 
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bill t.
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2013, 11:04:56 PM »
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The first coat should be thin enough that it feels dry to the touch within say 2 to 5 minutes max, unless the humidity is off the scale.  The applied liquid should look glossy just after landing on the print, but only for 1/2 minute or so.  Subsequent coats can be heavier.  Theory is, just don't don't put down enough coating to develop pinholes on that first coat.  Concentrate instead on simply priming the canvas.

If you have a scale, you should be applying not much more than about 5 grams of solution per square foot on the first coat.  Two more coats just a little heavier is a good compromise between protection and transparency.  I am meticulous weigher and it keeps me from having a whole gamut of problems that come from trending towards heavier or thinner coats over time without really noticing.  With my Fuji system, I only use a fraction of the possible paint flow, 1.25 needle turns out of about 8 possible.
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