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Author Topic: Horizon-tal?  (Read 6083 times)
Schewe
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2013, 03:06:44 AM »
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The problem with this photo is that the land angle is subtle enough that the line of the water could be mistaken for the true horizon. But it isn't. I think MR was either standing on shore, or standing up in a boat, and the true horizon is about at that line of portholes on the hull of the boat, or a hair lower.

First off, I'm pretty sure Kevin shot and posted this image, not Mike. Second, Mike Kevin and I (as well as others) have a lot of experience shooting from Zodiacs (3 trips to Antarctica for me) and when you are at near sea level, any twitch or change in angle is glaring–which is why I honestly think Kevin got it right even if it's unsettling to some people. Look, it is what it is...if you have a receding shoreline you'll never have a pure horizontal waterline and it shouldn't be...

If you don't like it...well, either lump it or get Kevin in a headlock and make him change it. Either way, I would find it amusing...
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Rob C
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2013, 03:30:42 AM »
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First off, I'm pretty sure Kevin shot and posted this image, not Mike. Second, Mike Kevin and I (as well as others) have a lot of experience shooting from Zodiacs (3 trips to Antarctica for me) and when you are at near sea level, any twitch or change in angle is glaring–which is why I honestly think Kevin got it right even if it's unsettling to some people. Look, it is what it is...if you have a receding shoreline you'll never have a pure horizontal waterline and it shouldn't be...

If you don't like it...well, either lump it or get Kevin in a headlock and make him change it. Either way, I would find it amusing...




What the hell's that when compared with a hairline doing the same goddam thing!

Rob C
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LesPalenik
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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2013, 07:47:59 AM »
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First off, I'm pretty sure Kevin shot and posted this image, not Mike. Second, Mike Kevin and I (as well as others) have a lot of experience shooting from Zodiacs (3 trips to Antarctica for me) and when you are at near sea level, any twitch or change in angle is glaring–which is why I honestly think Kevin got it right even if it's unsettling to some people. Look, it is what it is...if you have a receding shoreline you'll never have a pure horizontal waterline and it shouldn't be...

If you don't like it...well, either lump it or get Kevin in a headlock and make him change it. Either way, I would find it amusing...

Whoever took this picture, I can understand the dilemma of the maker.

Just recently, I encountered a similar situation when photographing a tree swing on flooded lake.
The shoreline was receding one way, the swing seat the other way, tree was leaning to the left, the swing ropes were not aligned, shortly, a real challenge. Just to balance all these irregularities, my first recourse was to introduce some color to the stark image. Since I'm opposed to any excessive image manipulation, instead of trying to line up the horizon and other aforementioned lines, I came up with a rather elegant and minimalistic solution, and trimmed the image to bare essentials. I'm sure that this approach would work well also for other images.  
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 07:52:22 AM by LesPalenik » Logged

Patricia Sheley
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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2013, 10:01:00 AM »
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Promised to go away, but the discussion just keeps folding in on itself as if it were a philosophy 101 lecture, "what is art?"

If the leveling and rules are all that important for a specific image, simply hang a plumb bob in front of the lens at capture for the first, just as a passport is thrown into the mix for color correction...   But why? Does the vision of the photographer count for nothing? Finding paths to intentional disengagement from the rules as learned and understood can be so much more... I'm missing the reasoning behind this obsession with level. Kevin recorded a sense of what a full day of experience feels like at the margins of return to the "mother ship". I feel the immense sense of satisfaction, journey, pleasure, breathing out on return before all are aboard, immediate necessities addressed, and an anticipation of laying back, maybe drink in hand, sharing and exchanging the unsaid of the day as all were individually immersed in their vision, now that they have the moments to absorb them individually at leisure...I think Kevin's offering beautifully shared that sense for those who might have wished to have been lucky enough to be part of that day....

One almost wonders if Kevin or Michael will even wish to continue sharing their sense of experience/place with the inhabitants of the the shadows within Plato's Cave.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 11:29:28 AM by Patricia Sheley » Logged

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Alan Klein
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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2013, 11:54:08 AM »
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I hate it when I go out to eat and sit down at a table that's wobbling.  Water's spilling out of the glass.  So you stuff your napkin under one leg to steady the table finally gettting that right.  And then the table is crooked.  Not horizontal.  You think your water glass is going to slide right off.  Did the carpenter forget his level and make the floor crooked?  Did the table manufacturer put on legs of different sizes?  What's wrong with these people?  They ought to have rules about these things.
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Rob C
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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2013, 12:26:51 PM »
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Alan, a place I used to frequent most days used to supply half clothes pegs just for that purpose. Worked quite well.

My current problem is napkins for the chest. I try to tuck them in and secure them at the neck of my T-shirt, and everything's fine until I move. Then, the beard pushes them back out and, if I'm not quick enough, into the soup they dive. I used my late wife's last few hairpins to secure napkin to shirt, but I managed to lose them all. Hairpins, that is. That made me sad. Now I just try to outwit the diver.

It's a bitch. Sometimes I just wish I didn't have to eat.

Rob C
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knickerhawk
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2013, 12:12:11 PM »
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Promised to go away, but the discussion just keeps folding in on itself as if it were a philosophy 101 lecture, "what is art?"

If the leveling and rules are all that important for a specific image, simply hang a plumb bob in front of the lens at capture for the first, just as a passport is thrown into the mix for color correction...   But why? Does the vision of the photographer count for nothing? Finding paths to intentional disengagement from the rules as learned and understood can be so much more... I'm missing the reasoning behind this obsession with level. Kevin recorded a sense of what a full day of experience feels like at the margins of return to the "mother ship". I feel the immense sense of satisfaction, journey, pleasure, breathing out on return before all are aboard, immediate necessities addressed, and an anticipation of laying back, maybe drink in hand, sharing and exchanging the unsaid of the day as all were individually immersed in their vision, now that they have the moments to absorb them individually at leisure...I think Kevin's offering beautifully shared that sense for those who might have wished to have been lucky enough to be part of that day....

One almost wonders if Kevin or Michael will even wish to continue sharing their sense of experience/place with the inhabitants of the the shadows within Plato's Cave.

Well, it bothered me when I first saw it on the home page of LL.  I was rather surprised when I saw in this thread how many didn't believe the shot was unleveled.  To test my initial impression I copied the shot posted earlier in this thread and drew several rectangles to see what lined up and what didn't.  The most telling rectangle is when you draw one with the bottom horizontal edge along the water horizon to the right of the boat and the left vertical edge next to the tall antenna in the front of the boat.  The water and antenna are consistently out of alignment with the rectangle.  Same goes with the main mast on top of the boat and with the waterline to the left of the boat.  Quite simply, the image is skewed.

As for breaking asethetic rules, yes, the vision of the photographer counts for a lot, but when the photographer is shooting from a rocking boat, it's quite possible that the image actually captured doesn't perfectly match his/her "vision" or intent.  It's quite likely that his his/her "vision" was not to deliberately skew the horizon at all. 

Let's be honest here, it was a bit of carelessness in processing the shot, not a deliberate aesthetic decision.
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Alan Klein
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2013, 04:28:50 PM »
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The rocking of the boat off of it's horizonal when the picture was snapped may skew the level view of the horizon as well.
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Alan Klein
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2013, 04:29:39 PM »
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Alan, a place I used to frequent most days used to supply half clothes pegs just for that purpose. Worked quite well.

My current problem is napkins for the chest. I try to tuck them in and secure them at the neck of my T-shirt, and everything's fine until I move. Then, the beard pushes them back out and, if I'm not quick enough, into the soup they dive. I used my late wife's last few hairpins to secure napkin to shirt, but I managed to lose them all. Hairpins, that is. That made me sad. Now I just try to outwit the diver.

It's a bitch. Sometimes I just wish I didn't have to eat.

Rob C

I'm trying to figure out why your beard does that.  Is it tucked into your shirt too? Smiley
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OldRoy
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« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2013, 08:56:06 AM »
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I'm off to Italy next week and hope to be posting some shots of the "Plumb-Vertical Tower of Pisa".
Roy
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AFairley
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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2013, 12:24:10 PM »
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I'm off to Italy next week and hope to be posting some shots of the "Plumb-Vertical Tower of Pisa".
Roy

Fortunately easy to fix with the new Lightroom 5 auto straighten feature   Grin
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KirbyKrieger
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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2013, 09:10:28 AM »
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Is the original page (or picture) still available?  The topic interests me, but I missed the published page and have so far failed to turn it up using the site's search.

Thanks.
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knickerhawk
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2013, 10:48:24 AM »
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Is the original page (or picture) still available?  The topic interests me, but I missed the published page and have so far failed to turn it up using the site's search.

Thanks.

It's the boat image that appears half way down the first page of this thread.
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KirbyKrieger
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« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2013, 12:36:57 PM »
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It's the boat image that appears half way down the first page of this thread.
Thanks.  Even re-re-reading that post, it is not clear to me that the included picture is the original.  The poster mentions how to manipulate the picture and what to look for, and says she saved it as a JPG, but then posts a TIFF.
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Patricia Sheley
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2013, 01:36:48 PM »
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Yes, "she" posted the tiff version...only the extension had changed. The version I temporarily placed on my desktop for reference is here, untouched. What was it Rob found in his mother's dictionary, ...flamboyant, defiant...can't remember the third, but I loved the sound of all three rolling off the tongue...I proudly add xntric... Wink

here you go...

(post script, "triumphant" was the third)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 02:16:23 PM by Patricia Sheley » Logged

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Oldfox
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2013, 01:58:11 PM »
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My scientific research has revealed that the image is 1.59 degrees unlevel. Look at the attached image.
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Patricia Sheley
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2013, 02:21:37 PM »
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"I'm missing the reasoning behind this obsession with level. Kevin recorded a sense of what a full day of experience feels like at the margins of return to the "mother ship". I feel the immense sense of satisfaction, journey, pleasure, breathing out on return before all are aboard, immediate necessities addressed, and an anticipation of laying back, maybe drink in hand, sharing and exchanging the unsaid of the day as all were individually immersed in their vision, now that they have the moments to absorb them individually at leisure...I think Kevin's offering beautifully shared that sense for those who might have wished to have been lucky enough to be part of that day...." P.A.S.
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OldRoy
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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2013, 02:36:09 PM »
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"I'm missing the reasoning behind this obsession with level. Kevin recorded a sense of what a full day of experience feels like at the margins of return to the "mother ship". I feel the immense sense of satisfaction, journey, pleasure, breathing out on return before all are aboard, immediate necessities addressed, and an anticipation of laying back, maybe drink in hand, sharing and exchanging the unsaid of the day as all were individually immersed in their vision, now that they have the moments to absorb them individually at leisure...I think Kevin's offering beautifully shared that sense for those who might have wished to have been lucky enough to be part of that day...." P.A.S.

As I lay back, drink in hand, contemplating the day's accomplishments and manifold pleasures in the bosom of what I like to regard as my personal castle, thinking thoughts that might possibly otherwise have remained un-thunk, I wonder if perhaps you might care to elaborate on how this fulsome, nay, poetic, postscript to what (dare I say it?) has been an illuminating thread, adds anything to it? Is Kevin perhaps a friend of yours?
The pic ain't level, any way you cut it.
Roy
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KirbyKrieger
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2013, 04:21:13 PM »
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Yes, "she" posted the tiff version...only the extension had changed. The version I temporarily placed on my desktop for reference is here, untouched. What was it Rob found in his mother's dictionary, ...flamboyant, defiant...can't remember the third, but I loved the sound of all three rolling off the tongue...I proudly add xntric... Wink

here you go...

(post script, "triumphant" was the third)

Not sure what pronoun of drum you are beating there -- care to explain?

As for the posted image -- there was no way to know whether it was the original or the one you manipulated.  Asking seemed polite, since, by all accounts, we are discussing small differences.
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