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Author Topic: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4  (Read 24290 times)
Guillermo Luijk
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« on: June 08, 2013, 07:34:56 PM »
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The new Olympus VF-4 EVF (2.36 Mpx, 100% field of view) with its 1,48x magnification, beats most OVFs found on DSLR cameras, even top FF models:



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hjulenissen
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2013, 12:13:16 AM »
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But pretty it ain't:
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stevesanacore
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2013, 09:24:06 AM »
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Kind of silly looking and very inconvenient I'll bet. An OMD and Sony NEX will slide in your pocket. This looks like it would be a major obstacle to that. Why not just build it into the body of a new OMD which is what I, and probably a million others are waiting for.

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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2013, 12:51:09 PM »
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Why not just build it into the body of a new OMD which is what I, and probably a million others are waiting for.
because there is no new OMD body yet (publicly available)... otherwise it is probably already built in... GH2 had 1.42x EVF back 2+ years ago.
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BJL
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 12:39:40 PM »
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What attracts me more than the VF image size is the ability to swivel these accessory EVFs up. Has anyone here worked with this combination of a Pen body with removable EVF? Also as far as pocketability, I do not find it at all convenient to put my E-M5 into a pocket, partly due to its VF hump, so the option of removing the EVF and then putting it and a sleeker flat-topped body in two pockets seems more viable.

The only other pocketable option I see is a flush-mounted EVF like in the NEX-7, but in that example there is the sacrifice of a less high rear screen, and I suspect that the VF magnification is constrained to keep the total camera body height down.

P. S. I am puzzled by the number of complaints I see here and elsewhere about the appearance of this combo: I care about how the pictures look much more than how the camera does! I also suspect that these objections are more due to it being unusual, and I am all for breaking with conventional appearances if new technological functions (like a VF that can tilt up!) dictate a new form.

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Guillermo Luijk
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 06:15:13 PM »
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Has anyone here worked with this combination of a Pen body with removable EVF?.

This is me taking a picture with an E-P2 and a tilted VF-2:



and this was the picture taken:




Even if I still prefer a well integrated EVF in the camera body, I can find several advantages in a removable EVF:

  • Reusable: buy the EVF once, use with several camera bodies without integrated EVF (if I buy an E-P5 I can use my VF-2 on it)
  • Updatable: the opposite to the previous concept, you can keep your present camera body and just upgrade your EVF to a newer model (if I buy a VF-4 I can use it on my E-P2)
  • Compact: when not attached to the camera body (and cameras are becoming more and more usable without the EVF), camera size can be kept to a minimum (e.g. the PEN series)
  • Tiltable: making easier to take some pictures
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 11:14:54 PM »
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  • Updatable: the opposite to the previous concept, you can keep your present camera body and just upgrade your EVF to a newer model (if I buy a VF-4 I can use it on my E-P2)
compatibility is not always a guarantee.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2013, 02:13:36 AM »
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P. S. I am puzzled by the number of complaints I see here and elsewhere about the appearance of this combo: I care about how the pictures look much more than how the camera does! I also suspect that these objections are more due to it being unusual, and I am all for breaking with conventional appearances if new technological functions (like a VF that can tilt up!) dictate a new form.
My complaint about appearance was more about perceived ergonomy, compactness and robustness.

I agree that a butt-ugly camera that enables great pictures is a great camera.

-h
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Guillermo Luijk
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2013, 02:22:35 AM »
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compatibility is not always a guarantee.

In that case we'll have to pay for another body/EVF, like happens 100% of the times with integrated EVF cameras.
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BJL
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2013, 09:26:06 AM »
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My complaint about appearance was more about perceived ergonomy, compactness and robustness.
Now we are talking!
- on ergonomics, the ability to tilt up is very appealing, both for the low-level shots the Guilermo illustrates and with the camera on a tripod.
- on compactness, it loses compared to compact system cameras with no EVF, or with a flush-mounted one, but is still smaller than an SLR, and has the option of becoming quite compact if you remove the EVF for storage, or in situations where the rear-screen is enough.
- robustness might be worse ... but if an accessory EVF fails or is damaged, or iis superceded by a new better model, "modularity" in replacement or upgrading might be an advantage. Remember when some high end film SLRs offered swappable VFs?

I am not sure yet, but maybe my next system upgrade might be a combination like the E-P5 (with tiltable rear screen and best available in-body IS and sensor) with a tiltable, removable accessory EVF. But it partly depends on what fraction of situations I get to be comfortable composing on the rear screen.


P. S. who else remembers when the "serious photography credo" included avoiding the flat, bright midday light, working instead earlier and later in the day? Now instead we hear that the occasional problem of bright sun on the rear screen makes it completely unacceptable for composition.
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armand
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2013, 11:32:18 AM »
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P. S. who else remembers when the "serious photography credo" included avoiding the flat, bright midday light, working instead earlier and later in the day? Now instead we hear that the occasional problem of bright sun on the rear screen makes it completely unacceptable for composition.

This is funny, it wasn't that long ago when I last read it. I wonder if it's because the software is so much better, +/- better sensors.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2013, 03:33:23 PM »
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Excelente! I still don't understand why so many people disregard or chastise the articulated screen. Me? I don't want to go without them anymore. Articulated EVF's are just as good.
Eduardo

This is me taking a picture with an E-P2 and a tilted VF-2:



and this was the picture taken:




Even if I still prefer a well integrated EVF in the camera body, I can find several advantages in a removable EVF:

  • Reusable: buy the EVF once, use with several camera bodies without integrated EVF (if I buy an E-P5 I can use my VF-2 on it)
  • Updatable: the opposite to the previous concept, you can keep your present camera body and just upgrade your EVF to a newer model (if I buy a VF-4 I can use it on my E-P2)
  • Compact: when not attached to the camera body (and cameras are becoming more and more usable without the EVF), camera size can be kept to a minimum (e.g. the PEN series)
  • Tiltable: making easier to take some pictures

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AFairley
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2013, 03:56:14 PM »
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Reminds me of how I used to use the DW3 finder on my F3hp.
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BJL
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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 05:25:08 PM »
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That DW3 finder reminds of another "then vs now":

Then: many photographers praised the top-down ground glass VF of "pre-prism VF" style medium format bodies, with their 54mm wide image, for advantages like keeping eye-contact with a portrait subject, more comfort when the camers is on a tripod or you want to hold it lower than eye level, and not having to hold one eye closed for extended periods of time.

Now: a tiltable LCD gives a similar option (a 4:3, 3" screen is a bit wider, at about 60mm) but is decried as giving an image too small for composing.


P. S. The DW3 even has a 5x magnification option, just like LCDs and EVFs!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 05:29:41 PM by BJL » Logged
BobDavid
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 09:59:47 PM »
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I love my EPL-1 and VF-2. It's a great combo. I've owned or used nearly every format--digital and analog--over the past 40 years.
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philbaum
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2013, 02:48:09 PM »
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Excelente! I still don't understand why so many people disregard or chastise the articulated screen. Me? I don't want to go without them anymore. Articulated EVF's are just as good.
Eduardo


I agree that tilt/articulated screens are under appreciated - except perhaps that already use them :-)  Most of the complaints seem to be made by those that have not used them.  My first tilting screen was on the Nex 5n.  Some people state that they are too easy to break.  But when i looked at the 5n tilting screen, movement is accomplished by a metal plate hinge that is screwed to both the screen and the body.  Its not something that is easily broken and in 18 months of use has not loosened up at all.  Can;t speak to articulating displays as to their toughness.  The old cliche is that REAL photographers don't hesitate to get down on their bellies to get low pictures.  Well, when getting the picture low in a muddy field of tulips, i would bet most photographers would hesitate to get their clothes that dirty and will resort to hail mary type of shots, hoping to get one right.

As to EVF, in bright weather (yes i know about the magic hour but sometimes travel arrangements don't always allow shooting only at dawn or dusk) on a backpacking hike, i soon got fed up with LCD display shooting on my Nex 5n and bought the Nex 6 with built-in EVF.  I thought about buying an attachable EVF for the Nex 5n, but at 1/3 the cost of the Nex 6, it didn't seem worth the investment on my part.  Between the EVF and Tilt screen options on the Nex 6, its an excellent camera to own, IMO.

I find mirrorless cameras, with their focus peaking and magnified focusing, to be ideal for taking macros.  A macro lens that i bought 5 years ago for my DSLR was collecting dust on a shelf until i found out what fun it is to use it on a mirrorless camera.  Yes, i still have a DSLR and use it for event applications where it has its advantages.

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bcooter
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2013, 03:27:34 PM »
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I find mirrorless cameras, with their focus peaking and magnified focusing, to be ideal for taking macros.  A macro lens that i bought 5 years ago for my DSLR was collecting dust on a shelf until i found out what fun it is to use it on a mirrorless camera.  Yes, i still have a DSLR and use it for event applications where it has its advantages.



At first, I loathed evf's.  When I started with video and the xl1 I thought they looked funny, as I had a lifetime of ovf.  Then well, maybe it's shooting so much video and using the RED's but I started to like them, then with the Olympus omd and the Panasonic gh3's, went from like to love.

WYSIWYG is an amazing system with continuous light.  I know, I've heard, there not there yet and there are some liabilities, but the same can be said for ovfs which has different liabilities.

EVF's are the future.  They allow articulating views, steadier shots and with old legacy lenses like Leica R's or Ms, or those f 095 chinese lense, or metabones, allows for focus that you can't get close to on any modern dslr.

I'd probably feel different if modern dslrs had a viewfinder you could actually manually focus with and removable prisms but they don't.

One other thing I love is shooting a frame, keeping my eye on the viewfinder and seeing everything frozen.  It's the most instant polaroid ever and none of this stopping, clicking a button and looking down at the lcd.  It's just shoot, correct, then shoot.

EVF's have also allowed all the different retro camera styles.  Without a evf a rangefinder would be more difficult, even the omd which mimicks the om1 series, would have been a much more difficult camera to make in a modern world with an ovf.



IMO

BC
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 03:29:50 PM by bcooter » Logged

Paulo Bizarro
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2013, 03:12:14 AM »
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I am all in favour of a nice high res EVF (such as the one on my Fujifilm XE-1). However, to me nothing beats a nice and bright optical VF on a full frame DSLR, when using a fast prime lens. The latter combination is critical for my landscape and starscape photography in the wee-wee hours.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2013, 07:20:40 PM »
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I was in the B&H mega store in NY the other day, and had a chance to look through several EVF.

HOLY CRAP!l!

No, I seriously mean  HOLY FREAKING CRAP!

They should come with a Surgeon General warning! If I suffered from seziours, I would have certainly got one on the spot. All that flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed...

The worst was Fuji XE-1. The best (but still eons away from OVF) was the new Olympus. I guess the only way to find them remotely acceptable is to be born after the digital revolution.
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Isaac
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2013, 12:03:50 AM »
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What "flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed"?

Auto-focus hunting?

Sony have obsoleted and replaced my SLT-A35 by the A37 and now the A58, so it's not the latest EVF but there's no frozen movement when the shutter is half-depressed.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:46:57 AM by Isaac » Logged
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