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Author Topic: High-gloss prints from inkjet printers  (Read 4648 times)
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 04:36:31 PM »
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Are there any problems with using pressure-sensitive film laminates on non-RC papers? Does it work better on glossy papers, or matte?

I have had mixed results trying to facemount inkjet prints, and currently avoid it.

What keeps me from pursuing it is the logic (where actually logical or not is another discussion) that an inkjet print is paper with a inkjet receptor coat applied and ink sprayed on top of that. My fear is that over time the bonding may actually separate the receptor coat from the paper backing.

As far as the original question, there is currently no pigment inkjet process I have seen that matches the pure gloss of a  Ciba or Flex print.  I believe a dye based inkjet printer may get closer, but I don't have much experience with those.
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shadowblade
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 05:35:52 PM »
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I have had mixed results trying to facemount inkjet prints, and currently avoid it.

What keeps me from pursuing it is the logic (where actually logical or not is another discussion) that an inkjet print is paper with a inkjet receptor coat applied and ink sprayed on top of that. My fear is that over time the bonding may actually separate the receptor coat from the paper backing.

Fair enough. Is that true of liquid laminates as well, or just film laminates?

Also, on a digital Lambda/Lightjet print, the layer containing the photosensitive emulsion is also separate from the paper - what are your thoughts on a film laminate separating the emulsion layer from the backing paper with those prints?

Quote
As far as the original question, there is currently no pigment inkjet process I have seen that matches the pure gloss of a  Ciba or Flex print.  I believe a dye based inkjet printer may get closer, but I don't have much experience with those.

Even with a glossy laminate layer? I always thought glossiness (or lack thereof) was due to the smoothness or roughness of the microtexture of a surface. Cibachrome and Fujiflex (and Metalprints) are extremely smooth, and thus extremely glossy.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2013, 08:04:15 PM »
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Several texture issues to keep tabs of.
Most papers and over laminates have some form of texture.
When I started laminating I must have run a dozen papers to get the smoothest finish with no texture.
Starting with papers the 2 finalists were Lexjet Metallic and my favorite Pictorico White Film.
Both of these under plexi or a hi gloss laminate are super smooth.
You take a paper like Epsons premium Luster and put it under plexi the texture is magnified.
The next issue if you are using a laminating film is that most of them also have texture.
I use Seal laminates. Print Shield Matte and Print Shield Luster both have a fine texture when laminated over the Pictorico film. You have to go with polyester Print Guard uv Gloss to get a crystal clear finish similar to face mounting with plexi. It is finicky stuff,really need a clean room with anti static tools.
Too much trouble so I do not use it on a regular basis.
I agree with Wayne on face mounting plexi. For me their are just too many issues that do not make it profitable to run.
My cabinetry shop is attached to my printmaking studio and even though we have sealed doors between the buildings sometimes dust has a way of going where we just cannot have dust.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 08:30:04 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

shadowblade
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2013, 04:52:20 AM »
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Several texture issues to keep tabs of.
Most papers and over laminates have some form of texture.
When I started laminating I must have run a dozen papers to get the smoothest finish with no texture.
Starting with papers the 2 finalists were Lexjet Metallic and my favorite Pictorico White Film.
Both of these under plexi or a hi gloss laminate are super smooth.
You take a paper like Epsons premium Luster and put it under plexi the texture is magnified.
The next issue if you are using a laminating film is that most of them also have texture.
I use Seal laminates. Print Shield Matte and Print Shield Luster both have a fine texture when laminated over the Pictorico film. You have to go with polyester Print Guard uv Gloss to get a crystal clear finish similar to face mounting with plexi. It is finicky stuff,really need a clean room with anti static tools.
Too much trouble so I do not use it on a regular basis.
I agree with Wayne on face mounting plexi. For me their are just too many issues that do not make it profitable to run.
My cabinetry shop is attached to my printmaking studio and even though we have sealed doors between the buildings sometimes dust has a way of going where we just cannot have dust.



This lab doesn't have Pictorico film or Lexjet Metallic, but does have InkjetPro Professional White Glossy Polyester Film and Moab Slickrock Metallic Pearl, which are of similar appearance.

I wonder about the permanence of prints on Pictorico (or Inkjetpro) polyester film, though - the one test I could find on it showed extremely poor permanence for prints on it. And the Moab paper has high optical brightener content, which I'm generally not too keen on (do optical brighteners have any impact on RC papers anyway?).

Have you tried laminating a smooth matte paper? How does that turn out, in terms of gloss and surface durability. Does the glossy laminate improve the dmax and colour saturation?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 05:12:53 AM by shadowblade » Logged
Ken Richmond
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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2013, 06:08:50 AM »
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I've had the most success face mounting to various thicknesses of Plexi with a 26" Drytac using Epson Premium Gloss 170 and a product called "Schticky" - a silicon lint roller.  It's positively worthless for the uses advertised, but if rinsed between prints, it works better than statically charged Micro Fibre cloth in my dusty workroom.  The 170 is very light and transparent and wall colors will show through it.  It's archival quality is not known to me, but in 7 months I've not seen nor heard complaints about de-lamination or bubbles from out-gassing.

Ken Richmond
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 06:23:19 AM by Ken Richmond » Logged

Dan Berg
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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2013, 06:43:49 AM »
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This lab doesn't have Pictorico film or Lexjet Metallic, but does have InkjetPro Professional White Glossy Polyester Film and Moab Slickrock Metallic Pearl, which are of similar appearance.

I wonder about the permanence of prints on Pictorico (or Inkjetpro) polyester film, though - the one test I could find on it showed extremely poor permanence for prints on it. And the Moab paper has high optical brightener content, which I'm generally not too keen on (do optical brighteners have any impact on RC papers anyway?).

Have you tried laminating a smooth matte paper? How does that turn out, in terms of gloss and surface durability. Does the glossy laminate improve the dmax and colour saturation?


Yes I have laminated over several of Epsons matte papers. The Hot Press and Cold Press lines. I did not try any gloss laminates over them as I was shooting for the low luster matte look.
All of the matte laminates are way too milky and just destroy the clarity.
The best was the the Print shield Luster. More on the glossy side then matte but overall a pretty nice satin look. Surface durability is excellent with an uptick in Dmax.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 07:14:58 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

shadowblade
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« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2013, 07:39:10 AM »
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Yes I have laminated over several of Epsons matte papers. The Hot Press and Cold Press lines. I did not try any gloss laminates over them as I was shooting for the low luster matte look.
All of the matte laminates are way too milky and just destroy the clarity.
The best was the the Print shield Luster. More on the glossy side then matte but overall a pretty nice satin look. Surface durability is excellent with an uptick in Dmax.

Sounds good - I guess a glossy laminate would result in an even greater increase in Dmax and colour saturation, then?

What about slightly-textured surfaces, e.g. Platine Rag, Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl or Museo Silver rag? I'd imagine the glossy, slightly-stippled surface would look great underneath a high-gloss laminate, for an almost multilayered effect, but I'm not sure how well a laminate would stick to a surface with even a slight texture.
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shadowblade
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« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2013, 08:16:18 AM »
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It's also occured to me - if a paper is resin-coated, i.e. covered in a thin, smooth layer of white plastic, like most metallic papers, does it even matter if the base material has OBAs, if the real 'background' of the photo is the white plastic?
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rcs100
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« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2013, 03:09:30 PM »
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Hi,

I have laminated all kinds of papers. The ones that work best are papers like Epson Premium Glossy. In the past I have mounted prints on dibond, wood, glass, ikea wardrobes, treehouse etc. I even created a copy of this famous Zanotta design table (http://www.architonic.com/pmsht/quaderna-zanotta/1002112). Always printed on Epson 9800/7880 and 7900. Lamination is great for these interior design kind of stuff (be it glossy or matt) but for photos on a gallery wall the look is too plastic.

For my own photography I have been using 3 and 4 mm plexiglass instead. Usually I would mount the (premium glossy) prints under plexi and then put them on dibond or even on wooden boxes as can be seen here in this exhibition in my gallery a few years ago (in this 360 image you can see my prints mounted on wood and plexi, the first try of the Zanotta table (turn 180 degrees) and underneath the table you can also see the silicon roll mounting machine I use) The link is here

http://www.360cities.net/nl/image/icipici-jochem-schoneveld-rome#92.10,16.50,80.0

Trick with roll mounting is to go slowly. You will not have any problems with air bubbles in that way. With plexi an antistatic horsehair brush is needed.

Jochem



Jochen,

Would you mind sharing what brand of silicon you use when face mounting?

Thanks
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hugowolf
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« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2013, 07:26:42 PM »
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It's also occured to me - if a paper is resin-coated, i.e. covered in a thin, smooth layer of white plastic, like most metallic papers, does it even matter if the base material has OBAs, if the real 'background' of the photo is the white plastic?
Yes it matters, the RC coating isn't generally UV protective, it it were then the OBAs would have little affect. It depends on where the OBAs are. They are more stable in the paper composition, than in the outer layers.

Brian A
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2013, 08:45:46 PM »
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Fair enough. Is that true of liquid laminates as well, or just film laminates?

Also, on a digital Lambda/Lightjet print, the layer containing the photosensitive emulsion is also separate from the paper - what are your thoughts on a film laminate separating the emulsion layer from the backing paper with those prints?


The application and bonding of the emulsion to photographic papers is substantially stronger, and in fact you can strip the paper backing away with the emulsion in tact. The dyes are embedded into that emulsion, not sitting on top like ink. Much different than inkjet receptor coat/ink (very fragile).

I have no proof or evidence of this being an issue.  However I'm also concerned that the varying depth of the inkjet prints could cause some small lines of bonding issues, it is very difficult to get a perfect seal against acrylic or glass when facemounting and any surface irregularities can be a problem.
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