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Author Topic: B&H & Adobe® Lightroom® 5 Digital Photography Summit  (Read 11498 times)
RFPhotography
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« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2013, 10:09:58 AM »
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Oh, Jeff, darling, spare me your bullying board games. I've never been filled with foolish pride.

This thread is much funnier than I ever expected, but some of the replies don't surprise me.

So I called a platform artist - an overweight, middle-aged, adult male photographer - fat, and just look at the phony outcry from a bunch of chubby babies in need of therapy. Not one peep from any professional businessman about Andrew Rodney - famous author, blogger, platform speaker, businessman, and fellow photographer - who publicly denigrates Scott Kelby's success in business, accusing him of being the "P.T. Barnum of all Photoshop, LR and photography…90%+ (about) making money and hocking."

In one small paragraph, Rodney slaps down decades of success and hard work that Kelby built, and stands tall and proud that he posted such destructive words, using his own name. And Jeff, LuLa's premiere lecturing bully, is demanding an apology from me for calling Kelby fat? What world are some of you so-called professionals living in? Tell me, Jeff, are Andrew's destructive words what you call "working for free, on behalf of the photographic community?"

I can't take any of you blowhards seriously anymore.

For those with uber thick skulls or a big, fat, beer belly, the simple point of my OP is: If you're going to take to the stage to "teach" beauty photography, take a look in the mirror first and check if your addiction to donuts makes you look credible.

OK, so I may not want to have sex with an obese man because I find that naked look an utter turn-off. But being obese doesn't mean you have no talent. However, even with talent, you're not entitled to bad taste and looking like a slob in the fashion photography business (unless your name is Bruce Weber and you possess his genius). If you're going to pretend to be a fashion photographer, you better know how to dress when you take the stage, and accept that beauty = the appearance of good health in ALL fashion circles. Instead of blogging, try a treadmill. Otherwise, expect to be criticized. The fashion police are everywhere.

IMO, Kelby would have served himself and the B&H audience better had he taken a portrait of a zaftig business woman, and had Katrin and Julieanne tackle those very real retouching issues. The average CEO in America is overweight, and none of them, male or female, want to appear that way in a corporate photo.

Photographers who claim to shoot "fashion" are becoming a dime a dozen, thanks to Terry Richardson. Many think all it takes is shooting a pretty young girl in a fancy dress with an on-camera flash. Well good luck getting a spread in Vogue, or any other fashion job, with such limited thinking. Even boring, bring-home-the-bacon, fashion catalog photographers know, if they lack taste and style (and oftentimes a great physique), art directors are not going to be willing to bond and trust.

It's your foot, shoot it as you see fit.

Then show us all how it's done.  Unmask yourself and show us (a) how slim trim and stylish you are and (b) how great your fashion photography is and what tear sheets you have.  Show some courage and put some conviction and substance behind otherwise empty words.
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AFairley
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« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2013, 11:21:43 AM »
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There are some threads that start out with a civil discussion and then degenerate into snarkiness and name calling, and then there are threads that start out with snarkiness and name calling and just get worse and worse.  I don't like either kind.  They may be fine on DPR, but they have no place here.  If you want to get into a pissing match with someone, please take it backchannel instead of polluting the boad.   Angry
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digitaldog
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« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2013, 11:40:16 AM »
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Misty

I find your POV difficult to accept nor understand.

Re: Scott Kelby. I had a professional relationship with him for several years along with some of the so called Photoshop guys and NAPP as a paying member. I wrote that I had a great deal of respect for Scott based on what he's accomplished. I still have a great deal of respect for him but based on experience, it's greatly diminished. I compared him to PT barnum not Stalin or Pol Pot! My point was, over the years, the focus of NAPP, lead by Scott has been more about selling then educating his paid members. Case in point is his over sale of a product that supposedly provides "Layers in Lightroom". I'm not the only one that found his slant completely sales oriented, these blog posts are right on the money. PLEASE read them:

http://regex.info/blog/2011-04-23/1753

http://regex.info/blog/2011-05-04/1761

I'm not a fan of the "here's everything in 7 steps" fast food approach which NAPP has focused on. I don't care for fast food education. As an example of a diametrically opposite approach, I'm more a fan of the lengthly and through tutorials of George Jardine.

Scott has on a number of occasions publicly dismissed soft proofing, something I feel I know something about. We strongly disagree. That the engineers at Adobe who are far smarter than either of us implemented this feature back in 1998, and that a large group of Photoshop and now Lightroom users find this necessary functionality, I find Scott's understanding to be wrong.I find his advise to be wrong! I have to wonder why he stated this on a number of occasions. He is supposed to be in the education business! I guess trying to distill color management into the fast food approach can't work but dismissing it is a deserve to his audience.

In that respect, this opinion I have of Scott isn't much different from that of Ken Rockwell also discussed on LuLa. I've only read two of his blog posts, both on color management and I find them glaringly incorrect. Other than my disapproval of Ken (and Scott's) understanding of color management, I have no beef with the qualities of their physical appearance! Any opinion I have of them as photographers is not science based so I'll not provide an opinion because it's not noteworthy.

You on the other hand have suggested that as an author, I'm out of line for stating my disagreement with another author (Scott). I told you I haven't been an author in many years and wondered when the statue of limitations runs out. You didn't reply which is telling!

On the other hand, you've said some pretty ugly things about Scott based on his physical appearance and wardrobe. You hide behind an alias. While complaining that my transparency as a forum poster is somehow out of line. Can you understand how some of us find that disingenuous? Distressful?
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Andrew Rodney
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http://digitaldog.net/
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« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2013, 12:41:54 PM »
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So I called a platform artist - an overweight, middle-aged, adult male photographer - fat, and just look at the phony outcry from a bunch of chubby babies in need of therapy. Not one peep from any professional businessman about Andrew Rodney - famous author, blogger, platform speaker, businessman, and fellow photographer - who publicly denigrates Scott Kelby's success in business, accusing him of being the "P.T. Barnum of all Photoshop, LR and photography…90%+ (about) making money and hocking."

In one small paragraph, Rodney slaps down decades of success and hard work that Kelby built, and stands tall and proud that he posted such destructive words, using his own name. And Jeff, LuLa's premiere lecturing bully, is demanding an apology from me for calling Kelby fat? What world are some of you so-called professionals living in? Tell me, Jeff, are Andrew's destructive words what you call "working for free, on behalf of the photographic community?"

Aside from the fact Andrew is a friend, nothing Andrew wrote was mean spirited compared to you diatribe. What Andrew wrote–using his own name–was his opinion based on his experience. The fact that he's willing to write what he wrote and back it with his professional reputation actually means a lot more than somebody snipping from the weeds in anonymity. You'll notice Andrew didn't stoop to your level and criticize his appearance...

Personally, I have a lot of respect for Scott. He's a great presenter, organizer and promoter. His persona is a well crafted "every man" sort "ah shucks" Jimmie Stewart with some extra pounds. Truth be told, you fell for his schtick hook line and sinker. Scott doesn't position himself as a "professional photographer" (with the exception of football sports shooting where he's credentialed and can shoot from the sidelines of NFL games–no small achievement). I have my issues with him and have told him. I don't like for-profits trade orgs...I think NAPP could be doing a lot more for the industry if they (Scott) wanted to. But NAPP does serve a purpose...

The fact is, if you had the writing skills, you could have written what you wrote without stooping to being mean spirited...that fact you can't seem to see the difference is pretty telling. I don't know if you are male or female, gay or straight, a rising star or a washout (I have my suspicions given your apparent lack of class) and you know what? I couldn't care less. But what I do know is you are mean spirited, petty, petulant and pretty much misguided.


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« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2013, 01:40:23 PM »
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Just a quick follow up...it seems the AMA declares obesity a disease. So, people who like to make fun of overweight people are making fun of a medical condition. And I don't think that's in the least bit "funny".
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Robert-Peter Westphal
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« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2013, 03:40:25 PM »
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Hi,

You can think what you want concernig Scott's knowledge, and you can discuss the content of what he teaches and the way he sells it,but it is absolutely damnable to slag someone because of his weight, color of skin, clothing he wears or anything else like this.

So, for me this thread has been closed.

Robert

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'visit my completly renewed gallery at http://www.naturfotografie-westphal.com '
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