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Author Topic: Crane Museo Silver Rag paper- any experience using?  (Read 2426 times)
dgillilan
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« on: June 26, 2013, 07:52:01 PM »
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Hello,
Has anyone used the glossy paper "Crane Museo Silver Rag Fine Art Paper- 300gsm" for printing color images and with roll paper? I am interested in using this paper but have no samples. If you have used it, did you get the results you wanted with color prints? If you used a roll, did it roll well and offer no printhead scratches or thickness problems? I am looking for a nice roll paper of 24 inches to use with my new Canon ipf 6400 printer and would like the pearl/semi gloss look, not a high shine, but a gloss paper with nice but little texture and high quality and ease of rolling and not terribly thick; does this paper look to be any shade short of white - I would like nice whiteness also.

Any experiences that you can share with this?

Thanks, Debra
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hugowolf
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 10:15:26 PM »
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Has anyone used the glossy paper "Crane Museo Silver Rag Fine Art Paper- 300gsm" for printing color images and with roll paper? I am interested in using this paper but have no samples.
Well the solution to this would be to buy a sample pack.

When introduced, there were few alternatives, but now there are many. It is somewhat glossier that it used to be, but the surface problems seem to have gone. I would also look at Canson Platine, and the numerous Hahnemuhle glossy rags.

A4/ Us Letter sample packs are readily available for all these papers.

Brian A
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OnyimBob
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 01:59:12 AM »
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I've used it extensively over the past couple of years. I've had no problems with the printer feeding or head strikes etc. It is a thick paper though and when you get towards the end of a roll there is a lot of curl, much the same with all these heavy papers.
In general though the paper produces lovely prints, with beautiful colour and texture.
I buy mine from Jeremy Dalder in Melbourne who has a high opinion of it - check here Imagescience.
Wouldn't hesitate to recommend it Debra, though Brian's suggestion to try a sample pack would be the smart thing to do.
Cheers,
Bob.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 08:17:28 AM »
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I print with it all the time on my Epson 3880.  I have a roll that I cut sheets from when I need to print longer than 19 inches and have no problems at all printing on 17x25 sheets (my printer does not take roll paper).  Proper adjustment to take into account the thickness of the paper is important.  Paper is great for both color and B/W printing.  BTW, paper stock is not sourced from Crane any longer as far as I know.

Alan
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Rob Reiter
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 11:44:44 AM »
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I've used it for quite a while with my Canon printers, currently the iPF8400 and it's one of my favorites. Specifically, it has excellent blacks-and I have a client who favors large prints with solid black backgrounds-and less gloss differential than any other glossy paper I use. De-curling roll paper is just a part of life...
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dgillilan
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 07:27:28 PM »
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Thank you Brian, Bob, Alan, and Rob, for your replies. I will have to get a sample set with this paper and give it a try.

I would like to get a less glossy paper and less curl, and better quality, in 24" roll. Thus I am giving some samples from Ilford and Hahnemuhle a try, and will order the Crane sample.

Thank you, Debra
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hugowolf
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 08:17:36 PM »
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Thank you Brian, Bob, Alan, and Rob, for your replies. I will have to get a sample set with this paper and give it a try.

I would like to get a less glossy paper and less curl, and better quality, in 24" roll. Thus I am giving some samples from Ilford and Hahnemuhle a try, and will order the Crane sample.
Don't forget Canson papers. They offer fewer papers than Hahnemuhle, but all their papers are excellent, and most without OBAs. If you are in the US, then:
http://www.itsupplies.com/Samples

Brian A
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dgillilan
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 04:44:28 AM »
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Thanks Brian for a recommendation, I will look more into Canson and I do buy from IT supplies sometimes, I just bought my Canon ipf 6400 from them. Very pleased with it.
Debra
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 08:46:12 AM »
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Silver Rag equates to Canson Platine and Innova Warm Cotton Gloss, in my opinion. Ernst very probably can comment on white point differences, but I'll say anecdotally that they are not the same. None of these have OBA's, and prints look pretty similar. The Innova might be may favorite, followed by the Silver Rag, were I to choose between them.

I rarely fine paper curl an issue with any of these three, but find the Canson Baryta Photographique curl pretty intense, just as a comparison. The Baryta is texture free and contains OBA, so that's the only comparison I was wanting to make in mentioning it.

John Caldwell
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Rob Reiter
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 01:06:12 PM »
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For a less glossy paper, try Ilford Gold Fiber Silk and Hahnemühle Fine Art Pearl. The GFS is slightly warmer than the Pearl, closer to the color of Silver Rag.

I would like to get a less glossy paper and less curl, and better quality, in 24" roll.
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texshooter
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2013, 09:16:19 AM »
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Hello,
Has anyone used the glossy paper "Crane Museo Silver Rag Fine Art Paper- 300gsm" for printing color images and... does this paper look to be any shade short of white - I would like nice whiteness also.

Thanks, Debra

If you like piss yellow paper then by all means.  Otherwise get Harman Gloss Art Fiber 300gsm. HGAF is the whitest alternative to CMSR. This is my favorite paper, love the texture. Breathing Color Vibrance Rag has a similar texture and gloss but still not as white as HGAF.  For smooth gloss  paper, I find Epson Exhibition Fiber to be the most color neutral. I print all my delicate white subjects on EEF. And for matte paper, the best and brightest award goes to Moab Entrada Bright.
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Mr. Capp
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2013, 10:48:16 AM »
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Canson Platine is hands down the best photo rag paper available. I've tried them all, believe me. Plus, Canson has unbeatable customer service.
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2013, 01:14:40 PM »
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Don't know that comparing OBA-free papers like Museo or the Platine to papers that do allow OBA, like Epson EEF, is really and apple-to-apple comparison. Look at Ernst's work if you want to see about the white values.

John Caldwell
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shadowblade
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2013, 06:26:18 PM »
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Canson Platine is hands down the best photo rag paper available. I've tried them all, believe me. Plus, Canson has unbeatable customer service.

Depends how saturated you like your colours. The Platine is good for monochrome images and those with gentle, muted colours, but the Silver Rag supports deeper, much more saturated colours. Also, the Silver Rag's surface is tough-as-nails. Have you also looked into Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl?
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Mr. Capp
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2013, 06:54:43 PM »
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I have printed test targets from Outback photo and it shows a color gamut virtually identical to Canson's Baryta which is virtually identical to IGFS.
The colors are outstanding. Depending on how you want to print it, it's capable of doing anything you want and has amazing "hand". 

Here's another thread on the topic
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3178738


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shadowblade
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2013, 07:27:45 AM »
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I have printed test targets from Outback photo and it shows a color gamut virtually identical to Canson's Baryta which is virtually identical to IGFS.
The colors are outstanding. Depending on how you want to print it, it's capable of doing anything you want and has amazing "hand". 

Here's another thread on the topic
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3178738




None of them are a match for Silver Rag or Photo Rag Pearl when it comes to high-saturated colours, though. Sure, they've got good gamut. But you can do better.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2013, 09:57:45 AM »
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If you like piss yellow paper then by all means.  Otherwise get Harman Gloss Art Fiber 300gsm. HGAF is the whitest alternative to CMSR. This is my favorite paper, love the texture. Breathing Color Vibrance Rag has a similar texture and gloss but still not as white as HGAF.  For smooth gloss  paper, I find Epson Exhibition Fiber to be the most color neutral. I print all my delicate white subjects on EEF. And for matte paper, the best and brightest award goes to Moab Entrada Bright.

With the papers you mention it is probably just a matter of time and they can be piss yellow too. I did not check the other ones at Aardenburg but EEF has some reputation to do that shift fast. With a b -4.1 it is not a neutral paper either, Canosn Platine is neutral and most likely OBA free .

I would not touch Entrada Bright White with a barg-pole, what causes the shift to yellow I do not know (OBAs could) but stored in the same map with many other matte papers it showed yellow edges fast as did Red River's Aurora BW but the other ones not. David Kachel had a similar experience but then with finished prints, see a recent thread on the Digital B&W forum. The few Bright White matte papers that have a better record are Epson's latest Hot and Cold Press versions, they stand the Aardenburg test quite good so far.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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shadowblade
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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2013, 10:30:12 AM »
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With the papers you mention it is probably just a matter of time and they can be piss yellow too. I did not check the other ones at Aardenburg but EEF has some reputation to do that shift fast. With a b -4.1 it is not a neutral paper either, Canosn Platine is neutral and most likely OBA free .

I would not touch Entrada Bright White with a barg-pole, what causes the shift to yellow I do not know (OBAs could) but stored in the same map with many other matte papers it showed yellow edges fast as did Red River's Aurora BW but the other ones not. David Kachel had a similar experience but then with finished prints, see a recent thread on the Digital B&W forum. The few Bright White matte papers that have a better record are Epson's latest Hot and Cold Press versions, they stand the Aardenburg test quite good so far.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Unfortunately, it seems that most bright-white papers out there achieve their effect by being chock-full of OBAs, leading to colour shifts as the OBAs burn out (and losing their bright white effect when under UV-protective spray, acrylic, glass or laminate). Almost every high-gloss paper out there also seems to be full of OBAs - do manufacturers think that those who prefer glossy papers don't care about image permanence?

Baryta papers can also achieve great whiteness without the disadvantage of OBA burnout, but baryta layers are fragile.

Custom-made papers, with baryta or titanium dioxide mixed in with the cotton rag when the paper is made (rather than applied as a separate layer after the paper base is already made), can be extremely white, without the use of OBAs or the inherent fragility of baryta papers. Unfortunately, I don't know of any off-the-shelf inkjet-coated paper made in this way.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2013, 10:50:57 AM »
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Custom-made papers, with baryta or titanium dioxide mixed in with the cotton rag when the paper is made (rather than applied as a separate layer after the paper base is already made), can be extremely white, without the use of OBAs or the inherent fragility of baryta papers. Unfortunately, I don't know of any off-the-shelf inkjet-coated paper made in this way.

Without any claim on the longevity the Innova IFA24 and IFA25 (dual sided) 200-210 grams. that is said to be alpha cellulose, has a high white reflectance and as far as I can see is OBA free looks like a paper that you describe. Close to neutral with b 2.0 where the L 97.7 helps to avoid the warm look. It now pops up with other brand names like Harman by Hahnemühle Matte Fibre Duo D.S 210 grams, Hahnemühle Photo Matt Fibre (Duo) 200-210 grams and possibly in a Tecco version. More to come I guess. I doubt any of the mentioned brands actually makes it but is a paper that may have been created by a bigger paper manufacturer  for the (ecosolvent) decoration market or the fast roll to roll industrial inkjet printers with page wide heads. The white a result of a whiter pulp and extra whitening agents. I like it for the image quality and price. Without independent testing done it I can not use for anything else but arty posters, decoration jobs, students work, my own images.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots. 
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texshooter
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2013, 03:12:26 PM »
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My suggestion to the OP is to print out a white subject like this one on each of the papers recommended in this thread and compare their color neutrality.  Believe is or not, some of us hate warm paper and don't care about OBA's. If the print goes bad, I'll print another. However, I do hope they hurry up and make a baryta-infused cotton fiber paper like Shadowblade talked about.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gemmastiles/8089691899/sizes/o/in/photostream/

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