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Author Topic: C1 or LR4.4?  (Read 1699 times)
ErikKaffehr
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« on: June 27, 2013, 02:47:55 PM »
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Hi,

The enclosed images show my conversions of a P45+ image using C1 and LR4.4. I have been using LR4.4 since 2006, but I am new to C1. I appretiate any comments.

The raw image is here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/MFDJourney/Samples/LR_vs_C1/20130624-CF043138.iiq

A color checker image shoot at the same time in similar light is here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/MFDJourney/Samples/LR_vs_C1/20130624-CF043156.iiq

Please, feel invited to try and comment.

Best regards
Erik
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 11:52:36 PM »
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The enclosed images show my conversions of a P45+ image using C1 and LR4.4. I have been using LR4.4 since 2006, but I am new to C1. I appretiate any comments.

While the raw file came in with .xmp settings (which BTW I don't really agree with) the C1 version did not...what were your C1 settings? What profile, what tnoe curve? I played with your CC shot in C1 and ACR 8.1 with Adobe Standard...the CC shots are close if you set C1 to the P1 P45+ Daylight profile and a linear curve (C1's default tone curves are often much brighter than ACR/LR's default)
 
So, the question is, do you want to adjust the ACR/LR to match the C1 rendering or do you want to have the C1 match the ACR/LR rendering? Are you trying to match one to the other or to get the best overall result in C1 and LR?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 12:07:16 AM »
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Jeff,

Thanks for looking!

I guess I wan't the best rendition of either converter, and than I would be interested how that was achieved. Than I would be interested in the fundamental differences if any. It is about learning, mostly.

The way I feel, Phase One experts recommend the use of Capture 1 but you need to learn to use the tool to get good results.

Best regards
Erik
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 12:21:12 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Schewe
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 12:30:31 AM »
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The way I feel, Phase One experts recommend the use of Capture 1 but you need to learn to use the tool to get good results.

First off, try the Linear curve under under Curve instead of Film Standard (which applies a pretty strong film like curve that really brightens the base level tone mapping).

Once you start with Linear, then you can apply a Curves adjustment to get an optimal tone map. You'll note that with Linear, the ACR/LR image and C1 image will be a lot closer...note, I'm working off the CC image not the general scene...once you get a good rendering of the CC image, you can the Copy and Paste settings in C1 to apply that to the general scene...once you have both the C1 and LR rendering similar, then you can drill down on more specific adjustments. But, again I ask what is the end goal? To get both C1 and LR to match or to adjust the image in both apps to get the best of the capture?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 12:38:29 AM »
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Hi Jeff,

Thanks for suggestion to work from color checker shot, getting that right and so on.

The aim would be best rendition.

Best regards
Erik

First off, try the Linear curve under under Curve instead of Film Standard (which applies a pretty strong film like curve that really brightens the base level tone mapping).

Once you start with Linear, then you can apply a Curves adjustment to get an optimal tone map. You'll note that with Linear, the ACR/LR image and C1 image will be a lot closer...note, I'm working off the CC image not the general scene...once you get a good rendering of the CC image, you can the Copy and Paste settings in C1 to apply that to the general scene...once you have both the C1 and LR rendering similar, then you can drill down on more specific adjustments. But, again I ask what is the end goal? To get both C1 and LR to match or to adjust the image in both apps to get the best of the capture?
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 01:44:03 AM »
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First off, try the Linear curve under under Curve instead of Film Standard (which applies a pretty strong film like curve that really brightens the base level tone mapping).

I second that. It's the first thing I do on just about any file, and it's part of my personal 'Style(s)' that I saved. You can set a style as a default when you import image files so you don't have to do it manually for each one (with [Shift] you can apply it to a range of selected images).

Without a 'linear curve' my ETTR exposures seem overexposed by almost a stop, resulting in clipped highlights and overall compressed brighter tones. You may find that with a linear curve setting you can in general increase the exposure on your P45+, which will improve image quality.

Cheers,
Bart
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 09:11:48 PM »
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One thing I note when looking at the 20130624-CF043138 image in C1 is that the WB is 4284K whereas in LR it is 5000K. C1 renders raw images from the P45+, when the P45+is set to Daylight, at 4284. In the six years using this back and asking why I have never received an answer why this is so. My practice, in daylight, is to set a new WB upon input to a value near 5000K.
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2013, 10:24:18 AM »
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One thing I note when looking at the 20130624-CF043138 image in C1 is that the WB is 4284K whereas in LR it is 5000K. C1 renders raw images from the P45+, when the P45+is set to Daylight, at 4284. In the six years using this back and asking why I have never received an answer why this is so. My practice, in daylight, is to set a new WB upon input to a value near 5000K.

Hi Jack,

I don't know why, although one could assume it's what the camera profile was created with.

I'd rather use a know neutral subject for White Balancing. That'll take care of any ambient colored reflection as well.

Cheers,
Bart
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 03:30:32 AM »
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Hi,

I am pretty sure it was measured of a gray card (Xrite Color Checker, second gray field from the left), bright sunny day.

Best regards
Erik

One thing I note when looking at the 20130624-CF043138 image in C1 is that the WB is 4284K whereas in LR it is 5000K. C1 renders raw images from the P45+, when the P45+is set to Daylight, at 4284. In the six years using this back and asking why I have never received an answer why this is so. My practice, in daylight, is to set a new WB upon input to a value near 5000K.
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 06:50:37 PM »
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Using a WhiBal I have consistently recorded values between 4900 and 5000 in bright sunlit scenes regardless of location. I often use a preset of 4984  which just happens to be a bright sunny day in Vermont. The numbers here in north Florida are about the same.
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Jack Varney
Isaac
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2013, 07:45:01 PM »
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First off, try the Linear curve under under Curve instead of Film Standard (which applies a pretty strong film like curve that really brightens the base level tone mapping).
I second that. It's the first thing I do on just about any file

Ah! That does seem to make the effect of adjustments more predictable.
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