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Author Topic: LR to C1...why?  (Read 17486 times)
dwood
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« on: July 02, 2013, 12:06:22 PM »
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I downloaded the demo version of C1 a while back with the intention of diving in to explore the app., but my world got hectic and before I knew it, the demo period timed out. My bad. I've been a long time LR user, and have been generally happy with it, but I keep hearing good things about C1 v7.x. I'd be interested in hearing from LR users that have made the switch. What are some of the key features/benefits of C1 that you prefer vs. LR, and also, what, if anything, do you miss?

-Doug
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 01:19:18 PM »
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Hi,

I bought C1 Pro but we make no friends. What I see is the LR is a mature product I have learned to use for seven years. I see some exotic advantages with C1, like better control of aliasing artifacts and possibly cleaner deep shadows at zeroed out settings.

Now, C1 is probably very good, but also very different from LR/ACR.

Best regards
Erik


I downloaded the demo version of C1 a while back with the intention of diving in to explore the app., but my world got hectic and before I knew it, the demo period timed out. My bad. I've been a long time LR user, and have been generally happy with it, but I keep hearing good things about C1 v7.x. I'd be interested in hearing from LR users that have made the switch. What are some of the key features/benefits of C1 that you prefer vs. LR, and also, what, if anything, do you miss?

-Doug
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dwood
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 09:30:57 PM »
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Hi Erik,

Sounds like you haven't noticed any real image processing advantages with C1 over that of LR, and maybe that the LR workflow is more to your liking. I appreciate your feedback.

Anyone else?

Best,
Doug   
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 11:37:07 PM »
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I have C1 v6 as well as Lr5.  I like the quality of the noise reduction better in Lr5 and I find Lr5 to be easier to use and more intuitive for me personally.  And this is true even though I was a C1 user before trying Lightroom.  On the other hand, there is something nice about the "look" of the files produced by C1 at the default settings.  For some people, this is a reason to use C1 instead of Lr.  So, in the end, I believe both to very good programs but different.  I think that a person must try both and see which is the best in their opinion.  Have you contacted Phase One and asked for another chance at a trial?  I would be very surprised if they would not do this for you.
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dwood
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2013, 10:20:27 AM »
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There's that workflow thing again, which is definitely important to me. Your comment about the "out of the gate" image quality thing with C1 is what I've been hearing as well, and is one reason I'm interested in C1. However, I suspect that one can get the same, or better, results with LR, but maybe just with a bit more effort. Good suggestion to contact Phase One to see if they'd be willing to give me some more trial time. Thanks for your comments, Bryan.

-Doug
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thko
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2013, 12:30:40 PM »
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My opinion concerning this question is:

If your goal is the best IQ, take C1 Ver. 7. The IQ in particular the colours, cleanliness and the details are in C1 are visible better than in LR 4 or 5. Not to mention the skin tones.

If you are looking for a powerful image management system your focus should be on LR.

Thomas
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Chris_Brown
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2013, 12:52:25 PM »
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I used C1 for years and decided to try ACR because of Adobe's use of the DNG camera profile. C1 uses ICC profiles and only accepts profiles with a particular file format (so not every ICC profile generated from software will work).

There are several threads here about ACR/LR color mechanisms and how they differ from an ICC camera profile workflow. The gist is that an ICC profile is best/most accurate when that profile has been generated with the scene's light source (not always possible, convenient or pragmatic). Whereas, ACR/LR and its DNG camera profile use a span of white point within the 2800˚K6500˚K (assuming a 2-color temp DNG camera profile in being used), and apply that into the ProPhoto color space.

I found that the ICC profile adjustment tool in C1 to be more like guess work, and have since stuck with ACR/LR.

C1 is a very good program, though. You should give it a try.

I'm not familiar with each program's de-mosaic algorithms, but I thought I read that Adobe has written their own proprietary de-mosaic code. Anyone know?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2013, 02:04:54 PM »
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Hi,

Seven years of experience vs. a couple of months. I would say that the C1 experience is a bit negative, the more I try it the less I like it. The P45+ back is the opposite, the more I use it the more I like it, with LR 5.0.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,

Sounds like you haven't noticed any real image processing advantages with C1 over that of LR, and maybe that the LR workflow is more to your liking. I appreciate your feedback.

Anyone else?

Best,
Doug   
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SecondFocus
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2013, 11:01:52 PM »
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For sheer speed and convenience with a lot of photographs, LR. I am doing that now with 22,509 photos from a project I shot. I could probably do it in C1 but I am not that proficient with it yet and do not have the time to practice.

For absolute stunning image quality, C1. I just reprocessed a series I shot on a Mamiya Leaf DM33 in v7 and it is just incredible. C1 v6, LR or Leaf Capture does not even come close.
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Ian L. Sitren
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nikcap
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2013, 01:33:12 PM »
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I am a Nikon shooter and have used LR since V1.  I started using Capture 1 7 because the D4 RAW files just didn't look right with LR 4 and even LR 5.  I had the same issue with Nikon D3 in older LR versions until Eric Chan released his V1-V4 beta profiles for D700 and D3.

I looked back at older files comparing C1 vs. LR5.  What I did notice is that the "hype" on C1 color is absolutely spot on.  Even after tweaking LR images(especially of fires or portraits) the color would just wouldn't look right.   I often shoot breaking news where I don't have time to use my ColorChecker Passport for calibration.  C1 Pro color is just terrific and I now only use it unless I need to do noise reduction or make a lot of adjustments(gradient tool, burning/dodging).  Then I use lr 5.  I will also sometimes finish images by exporting them from C1 to LR5 especially if I use Nik Color Efx 4. 

I have studied dozens of tutorials and read many LR books.  The last one was "The Digital Negative: Raw Image Processing in Lightroom, Camera Raw, and Photoshop" by Jeff Schewe.  Highly recommended. 

Unfortunately, LR does not play well with D4.  The images jump to life when opened in C1. 
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dwood
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2013, 09:58:26 AM »
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Seems that the common thread here is the IQ advantage of C1 7 over LR, which is enough of a compelling reason to see if Phase One will let me take another crack at a trial version. Thanks to all for your input.

-Doug 
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2013, 11:35:03 AM »
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I am doing that now with 22,509 photos from a project I shot.

ouch... what was that ? a petapixel pano ?
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2013, 11:42:57 AM »
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The gist is that an ICC profile is best/most accurate when that profile has been generated with the scene's light source (not always possible, convenient or pragmatic). Whereas, ACR/LR and its DNG camera profile use a span of white point within the 2800˚K6500˚K (assuming a 2-color temp DNG camera profile in being used), and apply that into the ProPhoto color space.
and practically this "gist" is not the case... somehow we do not see a consistently better color from ACR/LR shooters vs C1 shooters  (except the cases when somebody uses a converter for couple of month and then comes swinging).
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jeanvalentin
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2013, 12:06:35 PM »
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Both are good. I wouldn't go as far to say that C1 is always good out of the gate. Here is an image processed through LR v4 and C1 v 6.4.4 (I had so many problems with v7 that I had to revert back to a previous version).

Which one is LR and which one is C1?

I can message somebody the answer before any answers so you don't think I'm playing with the results  Smiley
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Best,
Valentin
BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2013, 01:18:04 PM »
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Both are good. I wouldn't go as far to say that C1 is always good out of the gate. Here is an image processed through LR v4 and C1 v 6.4.4 (I had so many problems with v7 that I had to revert back to a previous version).

Which one is LR and which one is C1?

Hard to say because of the tint difference and the small size. The image on the left is a bit too green tinted for my taste. The image on the right therefore looks slightly more pleasant and maybe with more highlight detail in the skin (perhaps due to warmer colors), but that may also be caused by a contrast/curve of sharpening/clarity difference.

The problem is that one will always have small post-processing differences that are not really a converter issue but a user setting, yet they can dominate the preference. As presented I prefer the image on the right, because its less greenish.

Cheers,
Bart
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quismond
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« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2013, 01:57:12 PM »
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Left: C1
Right: LR
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jeanvalentin
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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »
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.... are not really a converter issue but a user setting, yet they can dominate the preference....

Cheers,
Bart

Exactly. Yes, the processing engine behind the scene makes a big difference, but in MANY cases it comes down to personal preference. LR 4 was much better at highlight recovery. C1 7 caught up with that. So, they are both good. In some instances LR does a better job and in other instances C1 does it.

From a workflow point of view, in my opinion, LR is much better. The approach (tools, how they are implemented, some functionality...) is more intuitive compared to C1. And I've used C1 since version 1.x (it used to be user friendly until v4). Now, if you use an MDB, it makes sense to use C1 since it's developed with those in mind.


I picked the same spot for the white balance and added 1/3 exposure to both. The rest is with default settings (since the argument was made that the default is better).

I'll post which one is which a little bit later.

ETA: I had to reduce the size since it doesn't allow you to upload a larger file due to size
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 02:17:58 PM by jeanvalentin » Logged

Best,
Valentin
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2013, 03:20:15 PM »
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Left one, marked 2 is better, IMHO.

But I am landscape shooter, I don't have single portrait studio shot in my LR database of 68000 images.

The reason I don't like image on right is excessive contrast, the left image is more subtle. All that could hang on a 5% change of a slider.

Best regards
Erik
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 03:25:35 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

SecondFocus
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 12:52:55 PM »
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Very funny Smiley

Actually I did the still photography on a motion picture.

ouch... what was that ? a petapixel pano ?
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Ian L. Sitren
SecondFocus
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2013, 02:07:18 PM »
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Hi,

I presume that the images are scaled down, so it would be hard to judge sharpening. I have noticed that some C1 processed image have a somewhat grungy sharpening (large radius large amount) while I have strong preference for low radius and relatively high amount that gives a different look.

Best regards
Erik


Hard to say because of the tint difference and the small size. The image on the left is a bit too green tinted for my taste. The image on the right therefore looks slightly more pleasant and maybe with more highlight detail in the skin (perhaps due to warmer colors), but that may also be caused by a contrast/curve of sharpening/clarity difference.

The problem is that one will always have small post-processing differences that are not really a converter issue but a user setting, yet they can dominate the preference. As presented I prefer the image on the right, because its less greenish.

Cheers,
Bart
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