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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 63177 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #300 on: July 18, 2013, 07:48:26 PM »
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I tend to group people into two groups too: smart vs. stupid (pardon the simplification). Even when well-traveled, stupid people tend to see what they want to see, in order to confirm their preexisting opinion. While smart people can draw smart conclusions even from third party sources.

Accept well traveled as a metaphore for curious and you may get my point better.  Wink

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
RSL
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« Reply #301 on: July 18, 2013, 08:10:05 PM »
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You were there. Were you privy to all information? Are you blessed with perfect recall?

Please explain how that has anything at all to do with anything.
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mezzoduomo
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« Reply #302 on: July 18, 2013, 11:12:23 PM »
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....people tend to see what they want to see, in order to confirm their preexisting opinion.

I've been watching this thread for some time now, observing the lot of you simply stoking your own prejudices with selective 'facts' and bluster. "...A tale told by an idiot(s), all sound and fury, signifying nothing." I actually feel sorry for you all. God save me from a bitter, opinionated, empty old age.

Just the same, I read every word, like a passerby taking in the aftermath of a traffic accident.

Mezzzzzzzzzzzo.

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Ray
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« Reply #303 on: July 18, 2013, 11:25:18 PM »
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I've been watching this thread for some time now, observing the lot of you simply stoking your own prejudices with selective 'facts' and bluster. "...A tale told by an idiot(s), all sound and fury, signifying nothing." I actually feel sorry for you all. God save me from a bitter, opinionated, empty old age.

Just the same, I read every word, like a passerby taking in the aftermath of a traffic accident.

Mezzzzzzzzzzzo.



Sounds like you really want to join in the discussion in order to express your own bitter opinion.  Wink
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mezzoduomo
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« Reply #304 on: July 18, 2013, 11:43:15 PM »
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Sounds like you really want to join in the discussion in order to express your own bitter opinion.  Wink

If I did, I would. Fare thee well, Broccoli!
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Isaac
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« Reply #305 on: July 19, 2013, 12:24:05 AM »
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You were there. Were you privy to all information? Are you blessed with perfect recall?
Please explain how that has anything at all to do with anything.

If you were not privy to all information then actually there will be information you need to look up.

If you are not blessed with perfect recall then you should look up information simply to verify your recollection.
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Rob C
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« Reply #306 on: July 19, 2013, 03:35:51 AM »
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It seems you wish to benefit but not be burdened by Kant.


No; not Kant, not can't but cant.

Rob C
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degrub
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« Reply #307 on: July 19, 2013, 05:53:23 AM »
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That's an oblique tilt, Rob. Cheesy

Frank
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dreed
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« Reply #308 on: July 19, 2013, 09:06:54 AM »
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For those protesting the NSA's innocence comes this latest relevation:

NSA warned to rein in surveillance as agency reveals even greater scope

"John C Inglis, the deputy director of the surveillance agency, told a member of the House judiciary committee that NSA analysts can perform "a second or third hop query" through its collections of telephone data and internet records in order to find connections to terrorist organizations. "

... so that "only phone metadata" thing is now starting to look a lot more creepier ...
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RSL
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« Reply #309 on: July 19, 2013, 10:08:47 AM »
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Please explain how that has anything at all to do with anything.

If you were not privy to all information then actually there will be information you need to look up.

If you are not blessed with perfect recall then you should look up information simply to verify your recollection.

My "recollection" isn't what's at issue, Isaac. The extent of your understanding is the point, and it's obvious you need to "look it up."

Here's a suggestion: Go shoot some pictures and stop wasting time trolling.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #310 on: July 19, 2013, 10:44:40 AM »
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Even when well-traveled, stupid people tend to see what they want to see
indeed - do not mix tourism and emigration/immigration.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #311 on: July 19, 2013, 11:29:44 AM »
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I've been watching this thread for some time now, observing the lot of you simply stoking your own prejudices with selective 'facts' and bluster. "...A tale told by an idiot(s), all sound and fury, signifying nothing." I actually feel sorry for you all. God save me from a bitter, opinionated, empty old age...

Ah, quoting me and Shakespeare in the same post! I am truly honored, Sir!

But seriously, if you quoted a part of my sentence as an example of "a bitter, opinionated, empty old age," it is worth noting that what you quoted was actually an example of a cognitive bias, known in psychology of decision making as a confirmation bias. It happens to be a common human trait, not specifically related to old age.
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Slobodan

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mezzoduomo
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« Reply #312 on: July 19, 2013, 12:51:52 PM »
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Ah, quoting me and Shakespeare in the same post! I am truly honored, Sir!

But seriously, if you quoted a part of my sentence as an example of "a bitter, opinionated, empty old age," it is worth noting that what you quoted was actually an example of a cognitive bias, known in psychology of decision making as a confirmation bias. It happens to be a common human trait, not specifically related to old age.


10-4, Slobodan. Speaking of Shakespeare, Othello also fell victim to confirmation bias, come to think of it.

My general assessment as to some of the personalities indicated by the posts here....stands as is.
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Isaac
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« Reply #313 on: July 19, 2013, 02:45:26 PM »
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No; not Kant, not can't but cant.
That's an oblique tilt, Rob.

No, just a refusal to acknowledge that one has taken benefit from others morality.

Previously --

Dear Lord save us from the impossible cant.

It seems you wish to benefit but not be burdened by Kant.
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Isaac
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« Reply #314 on: July 19, 2013, 02:55:24 PM »
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My "recollection" isn't what's at issue, Isaac.

You've presented your memories of your experiences, during that period, as the record by which President Carter should be judged.

You've made your inherently limited knowledge and your inherently fallible recollections an issue.
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Isaac
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« Reply #315 on: July 19, 2013, 03:10:04 PM »
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I tend to group people into two groups too: smart vs. stupid (pardon the simplification). Even when well-traveled, stupid people tend to see what they want to see, in order to confirm their preexisting opinion.

Oh Slobodan! We all tend to see what we expect to see ("a common human trait" as you say of confirmation bias).

A distinction that might be workable is - a willingness to accept that we may be wrong.


You may be interested in this magazine article "The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science".
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 03:13:17 PM by Isaac » Logged
RSL
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« Reply #316 on: July 19, 2013, 03:15:56 PM »
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You've presented your memories of your experiences, during that period, as the record by which President Carter should be judged.

You've made your inherently limited knowledge and your inherently fallible recollections an issue.

Go shoot some pictures and stop wasting time trolling.
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Isaac
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« Reply #317 on: July 19, 2013, 03:21:21 PM »
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Go shoot some pictures and stop wasting time trolling.

You're right because you say you're right, and when challenged all you have left is name-calling.
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dreed
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« Reply #318 on: July 19, 2013, 04:29:09 PM »
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Please stop your internal bickering and focus on the topic at hand as it is probably one of the most important topics that we'll have to deal with in this decade. Please stop replying to trolls so that we can prevent this thread from turning into drivel.

Snowden's leaking of material has led to increased scrutiny of what the NSA does. The problem with this is that as the scrutiny digs deeper, the story thus far has not gotten any better - rather it seems to just get worse.

It is an organisation that for quite some time had its very existence denied - "No Such Agency" was one of the early nicknames for it.

The problem we face is that right now, we don't know how far down the rabbit hole at the NSA goes.

If the NSA is willing to tell us that it is not the end point targets of phone calls that they analyze but also people two hops removed then given the secretive nature of the place, what is it that they do that they're not willing to tell us but should?
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Rob C
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« Reply #319 on: July 19, 2013, 05:13:49 PM »
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"That's an oblique tilt, Rob."

"No, just a refusal to acknowledge that one has taken benefit from others morality."

Previously --

It seems you wish to benefit but not be burdened by Kant.


Isaac, strange as it may seem to you, I actually believe myself to be one of the more moral people I have ever encountered. The only two I've met who outclassed me were my wife and her mother. I never, ever, caught either one in a lie. I find great difficulty with even the whitest of diplomatic fibs, so I studiously avoid situations that give rise to them. That's one reason I avoid direct responses in the Critique section much of the time.

As for benefitting from others' morality - I'm not sure where this is coming from - the humidity is very high; can you explain?

Rob C
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