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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 45396 times)
dreed
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« Reply #360 on: July 28, 2013, 11:21:25 PM »
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Another link to a rubbish story on a 3rd rate websites.

The whole question over who or what Edward Snowden is or isn't is a distraction from the material being released.

It is an attempt to "Shoot the messenger".
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stamper
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« Reply #361 on: July 29, 2013, 03:06:05 AM »
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Oh, and of course the Israelis didn't want the world, and especially the Muslim countries around them, to know they have nukes.


Russ you may have fought in 3 wars but you don't seem to have any knowledge about deterrence. The main idea of having nukes is to let your noisy neighbours know you have them in the vain hope they won't attack you. Does deterrence work? The jury's out on that one. I bet if that Israeli scientist had been working for Iran and did the same thing then he would have no doubt have been a hero in Washington. Then again dumb right wingers probably wouldn't see the contradiction?
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Rob C
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« Reply #362 on: July 29, 2013, 04:34:27 AM »
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Russ you may have fought in 3 wars but you don't seem to have any knowledge about deterrence.

1. The main idea of having nukes is to let your noisy neighbours know you have them in the vain hope they won't attack you.

2. Does deterrence work? The jury's out on that one.

3. I bet if that Israeli scientist had been working for Iran and did the same thing then he would have no doubt have been a hero in Washington

4. Then again dumb right wingers probably wouldn't see the contradiction




1. Which one has been attacked, other than by irresponsible terrorists answerable to no-one but themselves? I can't presently think of any legal government taking that aggressive route.

2. So far, it does; why do you think the jury out?

3. Amazing confusion.

4. True; dumb people never see anything much, regardless of their natural political leanings.

Rob C
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stamper
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« Reply #363 on: July 29, 2013, 05:44:00 AM »
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1 Argentina attacking the UK. US & UK attacking Iraq.  The last example they attacked Iraq and told the world Iraq had nukes. Either George Bush was a liar or the intelligence service was amazingly incompetent?

2 Most countries in the world don't have them or want them.

3 What confuses you?

4 A confession?
 
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RSL
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« Reply #364 on: July 29, 2013, 06:28:34 AM »
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Russ you may have fought in 3 wars but you don't seem to have any knowledge about deterrence. The main idea of having nukes is to let your noisy neighbours know you have them in the vain hope they won't attack you. Does deterrence work? The jury's out on that one. I bet if that Israeli scientist had been working for Iran and did the same thing then he would have no doubt have been a hero in Washington. Then again dumb right wingers probably wouldn't see the contradiction?

Have you always had this much trouble recognizing sarcasm?
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stamper
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« Reply #365 on: July 29, 2013, 06:49:22 AM »
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Russ is that sarcasm? You learn something new every day! Now how about an "honest" answer depicting how you really feel without dodging the issue and introducing red herrings which you have been doing in this thread - and others - and then the forum members will really begin to understand you. It is rather ironic that you often ask posters if they have read the thread from the beginning and then spectacularly fail to do so yourself.  Wink
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RSL
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« Reply #366 on: July 29, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
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What, exactly, do you think I missed? There's so much BS in this thread it's hard to keep track.
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stamper
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« Reply #367 on: July 29, 2013, 09:21:34 AM »
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Quite frankly I think you deliberately missed the subject matter - and others have stated this - to steer it into an area that you could take the moral high ground - patriotism - that you are more comfortable with.
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popnfresh
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« Reply #368 on: July 29, 2013, 10:21:05 AM »
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Snowden is a distraction. The Prism Project is a tempest in a teapot. Your phone metadata has never been private. Your phone calls have never been private. There are thousands of people who work for the big corporation that sells you your phone service who can look at your phone bill anytime they want. They can listen in on your phone calls anytime they want.

A friend of mine once disputed being billed for an international phone call. She said she never made the call, so the phone company customer service representative pushed a button and played a recording of her phone call back to her, on the spot.

Now suddenly, when these corporations hand over a list of your phone calls to the NSA the sky is falling? I don't think so.
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RSL
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« Reply #369 on: July 29, 2013, 11:17:14 AM »
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Quite frankly I think you deliberately missed the subject matter - and others have stated this - to steer it into an area that you could take the moral high ground - patriotism - that you are more comfortable with.

In other words, you can't answer the question.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #370 on: July 29, 2013, 12:52:07 PM »
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"I should be out shooting instead of wasting my time in some dumb forum."

By all means. And wasting our time.
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Slobodan

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Rob C
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« Reply #371 on: July 29, 2013, 02:43:13 PM »
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1 Argentina attacking the UK. US & UK attacking Iraq.  The last example they attacked Iraq and told the world Iraq had nukes. Either George Bush was a liar or the intelligence service was amazingly incompetent?

2 Most countries in the world don't have them or want them.

3 What confuses you?

4 A confession?
 



1. Argentina attacking the UK? No, they didn’t think they were doing that: they thought they could just walk into distant isles and take them over, no attempts being expected to stand firm and retaliate. And you know what – had they tried it in any regime but Thatcher’s they’d probably have got away with it. They assumed they were dealing with ‘just a woman’ but in reality, they had no idea they were dealing with someone with strong principles and a great deal of pluck, and huge pride in her country. Whether any other leader would have had the balls I can’t say; I rather think not: the easy capitulation might have been the order of the day.

Bush & Blair attacking Iraq. Classic case of stupidity because the idea of forcing ‘democracy’ onto peoples with vastly different cultural values to our own can’t work. Indeed, it is only under totalitarian rule (dictators) that those countries hang together as units, mainly out of fear of what being without a ‘strong man’ will deliver unto them. Just observe the rest of the Arab Spring situations. Not one has fared better since its own particular Big Daddy was slain or deposed.

2. That you are able to speak for what ‘most countries in the world’ do or do not want might strike some of them as strange.
 
3. What confused me? I quote you:

“3. I bet if that Israeli scientist had been working for Iran and did the same thing then he would have no doubt have been a hero in Washington”

What amazed me was that you could hold so confused a concept in your mind.

4. A ‘confession’? No, an observation about dumb people of any political conviction, as much in your crowd as in mine.

Rob C
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RSL
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« Reply #372 on: July 29, 2013, 03:03:22 PM »
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The last example they attacked Iraq and told the world Iraq had nukes. Either George Bush was a liar or the intelligence service was amazingly incompetent?

Stamper, I don't know where you're getting this kind of crap, but it's well known that every intelligence agency in the free world was convinced Saddam had WMD. His own generals thought he had WMD and would use them.
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popnfresh
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« Reply #373 on: July 29, 2013, 03:19:52 PM »
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"I should be out shooting instead of wasting my time in some dumb forum."

By all means. And wasting our time.

It's all you. No one can waste your time for you. If you don't like what someone is posting, don't read it.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #374 on: July 29, 2013, 03:20:57 PM »
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... it's well known that every intelligence agency in the free world was convinced...

So much for the quality of your intelligence gathering. If only your could check Saddam's phone bill! Wink
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Slobodan

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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #375 on: July 29, 2013, 03:39:55 PM »
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It's all you. No one can waste your time for you. If you don't like what someone is posting, don't read it.

This must be the most reasonable post you've made so far!
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Slobodan

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« Reply #376 on: July 29, 2013, 04:00:53 PM »
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This must be the most reasonable post you've made so far!

There are three rules about internet forums I live by:

• Nothing involving opinions matters to anyone but yourself.

• People will cling to their preconceived beliefs of how the world works even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

• Everyone thinks the first two rules don't apply to them.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 04:03:11 PM by Popnfresh » Logged
Ken Richmond
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« Reply #377 on: July 29, 2013, 04:02:55 PM »
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Slobodan,

Over the past few days resistance to a posting temptation has been overcome.  I'd like to see your prodigious analytical prowess applied to a comparison of the NSA/Snowden data gathering disclosures, to the that of SAP-AG.  Here is a company that has networked, quite literally, more than 50% of the enterprise of the world and gathers telecommunications billing, inventory, acquisition, financial data, right down to ariable garden acreage to headquarters, surprisingly, or perhaps unsuprisingly, in Israel.  Check it out.  SAP-AG makes the NSA look trivial.

Ken Richmond
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Ken Richmond
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« Reply #378 on: July 29, 2013, 04:07:56 PM »
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BTW, Where's Jeff Schewe?,  SAP-AG is also hooked up with Adobe Connect.   SAP has grown nearly 400% since 2002 and employs 65K.  More than NSA.

Ken Richmond
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #379 on: July 29, 2013, 04:10:05 PM »
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SAP-AG... headquarters, surprisingly, or perhaps unsuprisingly, in Israel.  


"...About SAP AG

Headquartered in Walldorf, Germany..."
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