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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 45679 times)
Rocco Penny
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« Reply #560 on: August 23, 2013, 08:39:57 AM »
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lets not be naive,
there is no evidence that law enforcement and its allies don't engage in illegal and inappropriate actions daily,
here in Oakland the cops are a wild gang of thugs,
and the denial that our government is not only capable of, but directly proven responsible for acts of terrorism,
this is a country led by war criminals,
conceived by brutal racists, steeped in MURDER among less seemly odds,
and now
when the veil is lifted you all seem shocked.
All those yes votes in congress that were spurred by a sense of fear of being the party with a tragedy during its watch.
Meanwhile thousands of people here in the us starve,
people go untreated for easily treated health issues,
in cali our esteemed gov is promoting public private prison partnerships, bodies for $$$-
you people make me laugh.
If it weren't that you thought they could hear or see something about you personally, you'd be egging them on like during the last nightmare administration.

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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #561 on: August 23, 2013, 10:40:15 AM »
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Similarly because of how the USA was founded, the right to bear arms is part of the constitution whereas other countries don't enshrine this right.

well, USA was founded on an assumption that only white males of certain means, origin and religion can decide (not some females or negroes mind you)... the same goes for arms, assumptions back then are not exactly how it turned out today.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #562 on: August 23, 2013, 10:43:11 AM »
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Huh!?
you started to tell about who, where and when experienced terrorism... so why not go back further in history
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #563 on: August 23, 2013, 10:56:54 AM »
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you started to tell about who, where and when experienced terrorism... so why not go back further in history

No, I told about MY experience with terrorism (indirect, of course, in my life time, though, and affecting my environment).
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Slobodan

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Rob C
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« Reply #564 on: August 23, 2013, 04:14:15 PM »
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For all of those saying that PRISM is necessary to protect America from terrorists and that it will only be used for such comes this:

New Zealand police affidavits show use of PRISM for surveillance

i.e PRISM (the NSA spying thing that is used to find terrorists) was used against the citizen of another country and that the said person is quite clearly not a terrorists - well except if you're the MPAA/RIAA because then the person accused (Kim Dotcomm) is possibly worse than a terrorist because his file sharing website allowed people to share files and breach copyright provisions and we all know that democracy and life as we know it in the USA will come to an end if people share movies and songs....


Cool; now you condone theft. What are you doing in the company of photographers, some of whom need every penny their work can fetch?

As for music - the companies are powerful enough to deal with what they want to remove and leave what serves them as publicity. YouTube's full of music cancelled and music permitted to remain; you think that accidental?

Rob C
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Rob C
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« Reply #565 on: August 23, 2013, 04:28:00 PM »
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well, USA was founded on an assumption that only white males of certain means, origin and religion can decide (not some females or negroes mind you)... the same goes for arms, assumptions back then are not exactly how it turned out today.


Man, the entire world worked on that principle, including the black countries who sold off their own lesser (or inconvenient) citizens to the slave buyers. If you want to extend it to armaments, then yes, you're right - it's gone terribly wrong today: some of the lunatics have not only made it into some governments, they hold the armouries too.

Somehow, it seems to me that slavery, as immoral as it was (and still is, as it continues unbroken in some non-western countries), still isn't as bad as today's genocide in so many independent African 'states'. Ironic, that we in the west move away from it where some closer to the source of supply embrace it still.

Funny old world.

Rob C
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dreed
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« Reply #566 on: August 24, 2013, 02:40:02 AM »
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Cool; now you condone theft. What are you doing in the company of photographers, some of whom need every penny their work can fetch?

Rob, I hate to say this buy copyright violations are a civil matter, not a criminal one. Just ask any professional photographer that has had to deal with such (stories from Jeff Schewe and Alain Briot can be found on this topic on this website.)

Which is to say that when you as a photographer have someone using your work in an unauthorised fashion, you sue them for copyright infringement - you don't have someone arrested for copyright infringement.

What's important here is that PRISM hasn't been used to catch terrorists but rather PRISM has been used at the behest of corporations in a civil matter that isn't even remotely related to terrorism.
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #567 on: August 24, 2013, 07:55:57 AM »
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evidence doesn't matter- no amount of proof is enough-
you simply have to go through a court process to prove what's right,
then the supporters of the lies just do intellectual trapeze work when it's proved the lies are real.
It doesn't matter we torture- it doesn't matter enough that we murder, it sure doesn't matter that we ruin economies and lives by worldwide hegemony at all costs.
What America has become is shameful 
You'll all see eventually, by then,
no amount of proof will matter, photographs, official paperwork...
There is a way out though,
without blowing up the world, without using up every bit of carrying capacity of the planet,
without poisoning the world with generations of problems to come.
And people that want to be rich can still be rich,
Stop the unearned increment- the driving force behind so much of this BS
The strongest wins right?
Nothing wrong with strength,
just take it from those that have it now.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #568 on: August 24, 2013, 11:06:07 AM »
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... copyright violations are a civil matter, not a criminal one. ... you don't have someone arrested for copyright infringement.

Then you have not seen a DVD in a while Wink

Here, in the States, the first screen you see at the start of any DVD movie is this warning:
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Slobodan

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RSL
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« Reply #569 on: August 24, 2013, 11:20:01 AM »
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If your copyright isn't registered, you're on your own with a civil case, assuming you're willing to cough up for an attorney. If your copyright IS registered you can get help from the feds. Movies, of course, get special consideration since Hollywood knows how to kiss congressional ass better than the average streetwalker.

Here's a quick summary: http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/copy-corner66.htm
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dreed
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« Reply #570 on: August 24, 2013, 11:13:53 PM »
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Then you have not seen a DVD in a while Wink

Here, in the States, the first screen you see at the start of any DVD movie is this warning:

Actually, you're right, I haven't watched a DVD since I left China and those that I bought in China never had that message. Strange that.

I pay to see movies where they were made to be seen and enjoyed: in cinemas.

You might note that LuLa video journals stopped being made as DVDs at about the same time. Some people can read the tea leaves and move with the times, others seem to be resisting the future.

So what is criminal copyright? The US definition seems to be here:
18 USC § 2319 - Criminal infringement of a copyright
and my limited comprehension of Kim Dotcom and this would have trouble understanding how what he did was criminal but I suppose that depends on your perspective and is why people hire lawyers to argue in court.

If your copyright isn't registered, you're on your own with a civil case, assuming you're willing to cough up for an attorney. If your copyright IS registered you can get help from the feds. Movies, of course, get special consideration since Hollywood knows how to kiss congressional ass better than the average streetwalker.

Actually I seem to recall that Hollywood wanted to task the government with policing copyright infringement of its movies on the Internet.

The problem is that the MPAA seems to think that they own and can demand content be taken down under the DMCA even if it isn't theirs:

Hollywood studios take down Pirate Bay documentary

They also seem to get upset when others in the movie industry want to legitimise such things:
Hollywood Studios Fuming Over BitTorrent, Cinedigm 'Deal With the Devil'
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #571 on: August 25, 2013, 07:20:58 AM »
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well, pull the plug, the patient is dead-

as a practical matter I have sent a letter of support to Chelsea Manning extolling the virtues of the San Francisco Bay Area, and pointing out her contingent's being chosen as the people's "Best Overall Pride Contingent Award" after this years gay pride parade.

..."The vote for the “Absolutely Fabulous Overall Contingent” was put out to the community on SF Pride's web site. BMSN was up against three other groups: Abada Capoeira, Bay Area Youth Summit, and Mormons for Marriage Equality."

Here Manning can expect to be welcomed the hero she is.  I hope she studies here at one of our universities.  I'd like to get her picture as Grand Marshal of an upcoming event upon her release.

Then there is Snowden,  smarter than Manning, less prone to emotional deficits, and now with the New York Times reporting the previously almost tabloid coverage of the scandal plagued American public institutions.
Congress, Justice, Defense all of them corrupt to its core.
It's about time we hear the truth,
and vote accordingly.  It'll take time, and I'm not sure how much of that there is,
but the writing's on the wall.
No more will the little guy in the us be tossed into the fire without at least seeing it first.
Good luck with that...

« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 07:49:37 AM by Rocco Penny » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #572 on: August 25, 2013, 10:47:52 AM »
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You know, thinking about all this crazy, US-sourced self-flagellation, I was reminded of this little ditty:

http://youtu.be/NZqVJuPNchY

Instead of all this crazy bitching about yourselves, you should be grateful that you live where you do; that you are free to bitch; that you are surrounded by and own fantastic countryside; can swim and fish and sail on two oceans and a Gulf; that opportunity exists aplenty if you show the slightest ability to seize it even in one of your two hands!

Harry H, you already have the best of pretty much everything except for a long history, and today, even for those with one, who gives a damn anymore?

Relax a bit, feel good about your country. It's still worth it, unless you sabotage it.

Rob C

« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 11:43:27 AM by Rob C » Logged

dreed
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« Reply #573 on: August 25, 2013, 01:19:32 PM »
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Instead of all this crazy bitching about yourselves, you should be grateful that you live where you do; that you are currently free to bitch; that you are surrounded by and own fantastic countryside; can swim and fish and sail on two oceans and a Gulf; that opportunity exists aplenty if you show the slightest ability to seize it even in one of your two hands!

Had to fix that for you...

Quote
Relax a bit, feel good about your country. It's still worth it, unless you sabotage it.

Uh, the people doing the sabotage spend lots of time in Congress, not here...
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Rob C
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« Reply #574 on: August 26, 2013, 08:47:08 AM »
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Had to fix that for you...

Uh, the people doing the sabotage spend lots of time in Congress, not here...


Unauthorised fixes apart, I see that you still need your shot of vitamin E.

Fom the happy days of dirndl skirts, suspender belts and people who actually looked happy whist they danced instead of sexually fierce:

http://youtu.be/mHANNkKBSNU

Does anyone else remember dirndl skirts? Eras notwithstanding, never saw one of them in gold, though.

;-)

Rob C
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RSL
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« Reply #575 on: August 26, 2013, 10:08:45 AM »
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I remember them, Rob. I also remember jitterbugging in high school. Don't remember a gold dirndl, but I wasn't paying much attention to the color of the skirts.

I ought to add that I also remember real boogie woogie. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9b3ZZywQvg. The guy at the piano even looks like a guy I knew in high school.

Here's another one with a great dance routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QQzbCmlZM4. You gotta love these two kids. You're only that young once.

When this stuff was developing, the war was over and the Allies had won -- mainly because we'd learned how to listen in on the world's vandals and how to keep secrets. We also knew how to execute traitors like Snowden and Manning. A firing squad usually did the job. We understood that the Constitution was not a suicide pact.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:13:37 PM by RSL » Logged

Rocco Penny
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« Reply #576 on: August 26, 2013, 07:50:53 PM »
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I remember them, Rob. ...
...
I ought to add that I also remember real boogie woogie. ...
...
Here's another one with a great dance routine: ...

now here's something we can sure agree on,
in addition,
Harry the Hipster in his last years couldn't find work,
he made most piano players look like chumps, but no one cared who put the benzedrine in Mrs. Murphy's Ovaltine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WJq35UvO_o
or this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oZW3XPV7-k

Harry the hipster was one of a kind,
also
this dancing is pretty cool too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsxtGBMQGq4
Have a good night

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dreed
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« Reply #577 on: August 26, 2013, 08:00:14 PM »
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Unauthorised fixes apart, I see that you still need your shot of vitamin E.

It's ok Rob, it became clear quite some time ago in this thread that you are part of the problem of government secrecy and spying. The only question remaining is whether or not you're being paid to troll/further their agenda.
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #578 on: August 26, 2013, 08:37:59 PM »
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It's ok Rob, it became clear quite some time ago in this thread that you are part of the problem of government secrecy and spying. The only question remaining is whether or not you're being paid to troll/further their agenda.
you are being defied by Fred and Ging-
the duo with kick ass pizazz
man she looks like she is having fun,
and move... HAH!
Just like taking a breathtaking photo I guess,
you either can or can't...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxPgplMujzQ
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Rob C
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« Reply #579 on: August 27, 2013, 04:17:47 AM »
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It's ok Rob, it became clear quite some time ago in this thread that you are part of the problem of government secrecy and spying. The only question remaining is whether or not you're being paid to troll/further their agenda.


Of course I am!

It's clearly in the interests of your country's government for them to pay me loads of money so I can further enjoy my retirement in Spain! For a start, the medical facilities here are pretty good too: you should come, they actually have departments specialising in the treatment of folks with exactly your syndrome. I sometimes see them being helped and led along by gentlemen in white coats whilst I'm going over to the cardio and eye departments. So far, you'll be delighted to know, I can both see and walk there unaided, so perhaps my contract with the Evil Empire in Washington will last a little longe; but shhhhh! don't blow my cover just yet - I need the money.

Rob C
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