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Author Topic: Lightroom 5 hot issues  (Read 21907 times)
john beardsworth
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« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2013, 03:32:48 PM »
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As I've posted twice before in this thread Smiley - reimport the files to LR and export them again without any resizing but with sharpening. Try it and examine the results.
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Robert-Peter Westphal
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« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2013, 03:58:33 PM »
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As I've posted twice before in this thread Smiley - reimport the files to LR and export them again without any resizing but with sharpening. Try it and examine the results.

Hi John,

thanks for this hint, but I think your work-around is very basic because when you reimport the jpgs into Lightroom, the connection between capture-sharpening and output-sharpening is cut. So, I'm not sure whether the sharpening will be appropriate at all when run on a reimported jpg.

Best wishes

Robert
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2013, 04:13:25 PM »
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I accept it is a bit crude, Robert, and it isn't much value if the images need significant noise reduction.

But resizing down to <1/3 size is typically for web usage, and at this size the capture sharpening has less visual effect on the final image than the output sharpening. That's pretty obvious when you compare the unsharpened and 1:1 export versions.

If you need web output in any quantity, I'm not sure you have many better alternatives. Export from LR5 at full size and resize in LR4, via Image Processor in Bridge (with an action to apply sharpening), save that sharpening action as a droplet and run it as a post processing step in LR5 (bottom of export dialog), or use some other app?

John
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 04:31:00 PM by johnbeardy » Logged

rasterdogs
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« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2013, 08:03:15 PM »
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So, when you said "I really think that is either incompetence or disregard for their customers." you didn't really mean it? You were responding to somebody else's info?

As to work arounds, there are several LR plug-ins that can bypass the downsample not sharpening/noise reduction issue. Want to know what they are?

I'm about to install LR5 and would appreciate knowing what the LR plug-ins are that will avoid this problem.
Thanks,
rasterdogs
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Robert-Peter Westphal
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« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2013, 01:48:05 AM »
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I accept it is a bit crude, Robert, and it isn't much value if the images need significant noise reduction.

But resizing down to <1/3 size is typically for web usage, and at this size the capture sharpening has less visual effect on the final image than the output sharpening. That's pretty obvious when you compare the unsharpened and 1:1 export versions.

If you need web output in any quantity, I'm not sure you have many better alternatives. Export from LR5 at full size and resize in LR4, via Image Processor in Bridge (with an action to apply sharpening), save that sharpening action as a droplet and run it as a post processing step in LR5 (bottom of export dialog), or use some other app?

John


John,

I don't think you will receive properly sharpened images for we use when you brake the pipeline between capture-sharpening and output-sharpening, because the latter is something like an " Add-on" to capture-sharpening. So I bet if you sharpen 10 different images that way, you would receive 10 different sharping-results.

But, I'd be very interested in the info what was so crude in my former writing :-) ?

Robert
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« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2013, 02:18:14 AM »
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I'm about to install LR5 and would appreciate knowing what the LR plug-ins are that will avoid this problem.

Lr5.0 Export AutoFix is one plug-in that circumvents the issue (but takes a bit of work to install and use). Or just use the export-reimport option or use another resize/resample process such as an action saved as a droplet and called from within LR export.
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kikashi
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« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2013, 02:25:14 AM »
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You're confusing "merchantable quality" and "faultless". They're very different concepts.

Not in UK, Jeremy. Amazon did agree to refund full purchase price.

No, the two concepts are and remain different in the UK. Now you're mistaking what Amazon decide to do in pursuit of good customer relations for their what they might be legally obliged to do; and that is a mistake.

Jeremy
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2013, 03:31:21 AM »
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I don't think you will receive properly sharpened images for we use when you brake the pipeline between capture-sharpening and output-sharpening, because the latter is something like an " Add-on" to capture-sharpening. So I bet if you sharpen 10 different images that way, you would receive 10 different sharping-results.

But, I'd be very interested in the info what was so crude in my former writing :-) ?
Robert,

You were talking about my hint and had said "I think your work-around is very basic", so I began "I accept it is a bit crude". I suspect that clears up any misunderstanding!

It's the practical result that I think is more important than whether one is breaking a pipeline. Capture sharpening is a pretty subtle amount of sharpening that's applied to the full size image. That's even more subtle - invisible? - by the time you've reduced the image to under a third of its original size. Output sharpening should always be applied after resizing an image (which the workaround does) and at <1/3 it is much more crunchy and has a real impact on what you see.

You should try some examples for yourself, but I've put one at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gqmtauk8s4wrcal/_rEe1bdcHE (I initially put them on Flickr but noticed it was adding its own sharpening). I included a couple of tests where I layered the images in Photoshop and applied the Difference blending mode. You can certainly bet on 10 examples where the crude differs from what LR should be doing, but would you bet on how many of the workaround's images aren't perfectly usable?

John
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 03:33:42 AM by johnbeardy » Logged

ihv
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« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2013, 03:31:48 AM »
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Looks like I'm a bit old fashioned, I thought the meaning of "hot" was to stress the importance and was the subject of quite a quick reaction.

Seriously though, I believed this is to be responded really quickly so I didn't bother to go into "tricks" and have postponed some stuff.
Look what's the date today!

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« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2013, 03:40:00 AM »
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Output sharpening should always be applied after resizing an image (which the workaround does) and at <1/3 it is much more crunchy and has a real impact on what you see.

I presume this was simplified for the sake of brevity? Because for downsizing (as opposed to upsizing) this is exactly why it may be beneficial to do sharpening prior to downsizing. It will improve the perception if microdetail in most cases as the downsizing usually is a lossy "imperfect" operation: i.e. the imperfect downsampling loses information that is then no longer available for sharpening of whatever sort.
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Oscar Rysdyk
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« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2013, 03:43:19 AM »
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Just for the sake of having practical value.

John
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 03:46:05 AM by johnbeardy » Logged

PhotoEcosse
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« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2013, 05:44:48 AM »
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......

But resizing down to <1/3 size is typically for web usage...........

John


...and for some much more critical uses - e.g. for PDI sections of major international Salons.

I am in the process of preparing 16 PDIs for the Northern Counties and have had to revert to LR4 (which is the main reason I returned LR5 to Amazon for a refund. I could not find a way - not saying there isn't one - of getting both LR4 and LR5 to simultaneously update my LR catalogue, and the new features in LR5 are less important to me at present than getting my Salon entries as good as I can.)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 05:48:11 AM by PhotoEcosse » Logged

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rasterdogs
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« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2013, 10:13:57 PM »
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Lr5.0 Export AutoFix is one plug-in that circumvents the issue (but takes a bit of work to install and use). Or just use the export-reimport option or use another resize/resample process such as an action saved as a droplet and called from within LR export.
Jeff,
Thank you.  Cheesy

Now we can return to bitching and moaning about bugs and proper practices for software development.  Tongue
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ihv
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« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2013, 08:20:25 AM »
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I beg to differ - this is a serious issue, almost a month has passed and not a single item in the hotlist is fixed and no info whatsoever on the progress.

As I was digging for any further info (because Adobe is not offering any kind) I found this:

"It will be fixed for sure in the next dot release. Although I can't give you a precise date of that release, we generally do releases 4 times per year, which means a release every 13 weeks or so. As Lr 5 was released in early-mid June, this should give you an idea of when the next release will be. "

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr5_trial_output_sharpening_and_noise_reduction_not_working





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digitaldog
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« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2013, 11:01:09 AM »
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I presume this was simplified for the sake of brevity? Because for downsizing (as opposed to upsizing) this is exactly why it may be beneficial to do sharpening prior to downsizing.

Handled prior with the capture sharpening which is tied at the hip to the output sharpening. All based on:

http://www.creativepro.com/article/out-gamut-almost-everything-you-wanted-know-about-sharpening-photoshop-were-afraid-ask
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2013, 05:22:35 AM »
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As I was digging for any further info (because Adobe is not offering any kind) I found this:

"It will be fixed for sure in the next dot release. Although I can't give you a precise date of that release, we generally do releases 4 times per year, which means a release every 13 weeks or so. As Lr 5 was released in early-mid June, this should give you an idea of when the next release will be. "

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr5_trial_output_sharpening_and_noise_reduction_not_working







Thanks for the link Smiley  What caught my eye was the post by Eric Chan 'dated one month ago' where he says we know the root cause and it will be fixed' ~ now not sure of the exact date that LR5 final was released for downloading but it seems from that comment that the cause was identified very quickly!!!  So why the wait for possibly up to another 8 weeks for the "normal" dot release......................can there not be a 'hotfix' for such bugs/glitches found & cured quickly in the "fixing" cycle prior to the dot release???
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elied
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« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2013, 06:31:18 AM »
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Thanks for the link Smiley  What caught my eye was the post by Eric Chan 'dated one month ago' where he says we know the root cause and it will be fixed' ~ now not sure of the exact date that LR5 final was released for downloading but it seems from that comment that the cause was identified very quickly!!!  So why the wait for possibly up to another 8 weeks for the "normal" dot release......................can there not be a 'hotfix' for such bugs/glitches found & cured quickly in the "fixing" cycle prior to the dot release???
There hasn't even been a new blog on the Lightroom Journal since June 12. Apparently everybody at Adobe has gone off to watch the Tour deFrance and sample the bistros of Paris or perhaps they are shooting landscapes in Antartica.
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Wes Lachot
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« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2013, 09:24:32 PM »
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As I've posted twice before in this thread Smiley - reimport the files to LR and export them again without any resizing but with sharpening. Try it and examine the results.
Thanks, John. I tried it and you were right - I was surprised that the quality didn't seem to suffer as I added the sharpening in that manner. The jpg "puddling distortion" or whatever it's called was just a bit different, but no worse, really; it just moved around a bit.
What I realized after doing this experiment (and looking very closely at the results) is that I actually preferred these photos without sharpening. These are 800 pixel reductions of architectural interiors, for the web, and the medium sharpening LR setting added just-noticable jaggies to the diagonal lines, while not improving the clarity more than just a tiny bit.
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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2013, 11:07:51 AM »
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Okay, The Tour's over!!!! Back to work!   Wink
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2013, 02:01:03 PM »
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See Update on Hot Issues in Lightroom 5

"As mentioned here, we have been investigating a number of issues that Lightroom 5 customers have reported.  We are testing fixes for these issues and are planning to release an update next week."
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