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Author Topic: Death in The Wave - Vermilion Cliffs National Monument  (Read 22971 times)
bretedge
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2013, 12:46:30 AM »
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[Water stops?  This is a joke - right?  Next someone will want a road paved to the Wave. 


If you provide a service you have to ensure that people will not die using it, especially if it is easily preventable. My example is one that is already in place in Australia. The water is available from a rain tank that requires limited maintenance. The shelter also has information on the area.

Three people have died, that is not a joke, warning signs are not enough. How would you prevent further deaths?

Cheers,

Exactly what "service" is the BLM providing?  The deaths are tragic and they are not a joke but the BLM is not to be blamed for them.  We all venture into the wilderness, with or without a permit, knowing that it's slightly more dangerous than watching game shows on the couch at home.  If we get struck by lightning, eaten by a bear, bitten by a rattlesnake, washed away in a flash flood, crushed by a falling tree or otherwise dispatched in a tragic, unfortunate and perhaps untimely manner, so be it.  We don't need any more government intervention/babysitting to protect us from ourselves.  It boils down to one very simple concept: use some friggin' common sense before you step into the wild!
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markadams99
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2013, 06:24:18 PM »
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Like it or not (I don't) The Wave is a world-renowned celebrity location and specific access is managed and charged for by the BLM. I've been to 3 of the lotteries and it's obvious that a fair few of the international crowd, both young and old, are taking a much bigger risk than they realize.  I applaud Bret Edge's point of view on personal responsibility in the wild, but The Wave is an artificial case and one of the few spots where some BLM safety measures are warranted.

 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 06:35:34 PM by markadams99 » Logged

NancyP
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2013, 06:59:50 PM »
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They need to post these news articles at the "trailhead" for the Wave, as well as information about amount of water required, likely temperature range, degree of difficulty (sand - moderate to difficult).
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maccostas
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2013, 08:20:24 PM »
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There is an extensive packet that BLM sends out when you get your permit for hiking the wave. I am one of the lucky people who received a lottery draw to hike there.

The map that they send is not hard to follow. It is pictures of the landscape you are supposed to walk over with arrows pointing to the way to the next landmark. (would you rather be sent a topo and compass?) Any reasonable person should be able to decipher this. There are also trail makers about every 50ft along the way. there are literally hundreds of neatly piled rock carrons the entire way to the wave.

The trail is 3 miles long and I would rank it as mild. even on a hot day. (my permit was for July 20 2008) we saw temps over 100 degrees. we carried 6L of water per person so we could stay out. it took us less than 2 hours to hike it and that was with stopping every 200ft to take pictures.

before went on the hike we did research about the area, we brought our own maps to compliment the ones we got from blm and we did extensive flyovers with Google earth to get a lay of the land. I encourage any person who is going to enter an developed wilderness area to do the same and more.

Wilderness areas are just that they are wilderness. they are not developed and there are signs at the trail head, there are warnings on the blm website and there is information in the packet you are given about just this.

These areas are delicate and need to remain as undeveloped as possible. What happened is tragic but it is no persons fault but the ones who went on the hike. there is no one else to blame. They tragically paid the ultimate price for not being prepared.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 08:25:10 PM by maccostas » Logged
HSakols
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2013, 08:12:25 PM »
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Lesson learned is we are too dependent on gov. agencies to make decisions for us that require personal judgement.  A good solution to the safety problem is this.
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Isaac
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« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2013, 04:14:03 PM »
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They need to post these news articles at the "trailhead" for the Wave...

The Yosemite NP visitor centres display a letter page poster of recent incidents, and then there are the website news items --

Rock Climber Dies in Yosemite National Park June 03, 2013

Visitor Swept Over Nevada Fall in Yosemite National Park June 02, 2013

Yosemite National Park Rangers Recover Body of Missing Hiker May 07, 2013

etc
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Scott O.
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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2013, 10:29:21 PM »
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An interesting article in the travel section of the Orange County Register newspaper today. There are 7,300 permits for the Wave available in a year. There were 48,264 people who applied for those permits last year! In the literature passed out to people who get the permits, there are warnings about how much water to bring (1 gallon per person), as well as needing to bring snacks and sunscreen. Hikers are told to be able to use a compass or gps and are given a detailed hiking guide. The BLM also has said it will require all lottery applicants (did they mean winners?) to watch a safety video. Something I didn't know is that the BLM keeps a list of registered guides who don't need an additional permit to accompany permitted hikers. I don't know what else they can do...no one can keep people from making the wrong decisions, especially when presented with adequate information.
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bellimages
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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 09:52:32 AM »
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Lawsuit? Why???

This is the natural world. And we should feel honored that we (sometimes) get to visit it. People need to educate themselves before attempting areas like this (and those even more remote).

People die canyoneering too, and rock climbing, rafting, etc., etc. Should there be laws to protect them? I feel that nature should be there as a place to escape the day-to-day world that we live in. I don't want to see a LAW controlling my time in nature. On the other hand, I'm not adverse to a sign at the trailhead advising people of the dangers. I've been there but don't remember if one already exists. I'm guessing so.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2013, 12:29:46 PM »
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A new danger in national parks - bringing your bride along: Smiley

Newlywed wife accused of pushing husband off Montana cliff
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Slobodan

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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 12:54:31 PM »
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... I'm not adverse to a sign at the trailhead advising people of the dangers.

Like this one in Death Valley.  Fair warning, I'd say.  I kept the hell out.  : )


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Roman Racela
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« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2013, 08:43:32 PM »
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Reading the story about the couple that died and the other stories with unhappy endings really saddens me. These tragedies make me realize that many people go out on adventures ill prepared...they get badly injured or die in some cases. I had two experiences when I was able to help people get out of bad situations unharmed. My friend and I drove up to White Mountains in the Eastern Sierra back in December 2012 to do some Winter photography. The rangers have left and the "park" was closed for the season. I heard cries for help and thought it was a joke because I wasn't expecting anybody up there. We saw a young couple that have been trapped for 3 days in a snowstorm up at 10,500+ feet elevation. No food, no more water (they couldn't even melt water to drink). Their 4WD truck got stuck in a snowdrift, stayed overnight in the vehicle, walked 6 miles all day in the snow and broke into the ranger station (more like a wooden trailer) and stayed there for 2 more days. It was my dream to photograph bristlecone trees in the winter, but it would have to wait. Helping 2 hungry and cold individuals was more important.

My 2nd experience helping people happened last month but it wasn't as bad as the one in the Eastern Sierra. A couple of older ladies were trying to reach White Pocket in a Mazda Miata. Hahaha. I had to pull their Mazda Miata out of deep sand with my 4Runner 4WD. Some people really think they can go to White Pocket in their little rear wheel drive convertible. I couldn't stop myself from laughing while I was helping them them.

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