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Author Topic: Mamiya 645 AFD - mirror lockup -> shutter won't trip  (Read 5129 times)
blumarble
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« on: July 07, 2013, 08:20:55 PM »
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I can't seem to find anything on this, anywhere, so far...

I recently bought a 645 AFD and a P25+ back.  Everything seemed to work fine, including the mirror lockup.  Just last week I was shooting in Utah and I setup my shot, locked the exposure (AEL), locked up the mirror, and...  the shutter wouldn't release.  I tried both the electronic release and manually pressing the button.  A little later, back at the motel room, I tried all three of my lenses and the results were the same (not a lens problem).  I also tried variations in turning on the back and camera (first one then the other), removing the batteries and replacing, removing the back and cleaning the contacts, etc.  I tried it again the next day and had the same problem.  I had to shoot the rest of the trip without using the mirror lockup.

Now that I'm home in Seattle, I thought I'd try it again; it works as it should and the shutter trips!  Offhand, the only two essential differences between here where it works, and there where it doesn't is: 1. It was hotter there with temps in the 90s, and 2. I was at altitudes about 6,000 feet.

I'm going to give KEH (where I bought the camera) a call tomorrow to see if they have any advice (and maybe send it in to check it out).  But I thought I'd also post this to see if anyone else had had a similar problem and might know of a solution, or might have an idea as to why this would happen.

Thanks,

Rob
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 10:34:59 PM »
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Would it shoot without mirror lockup?
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David Campbell
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 08:39:50 AM »
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Was your CF card full?
You only get a warning in the viewfinder, not on the back.

Also are you body batteries close to flat?
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Richard Osbourne
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 09:08:54 AM »
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I had the same problem recently. Turned out the remote shutter release has a dial - it had rotated itself to the second setting, which I think is a bulb setting, preventing further shutter releases. Nearly had a heart attack until I discovered it.
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blumarble
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 09:23:03 AM »
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Yes, it shot normally when the mirror was not locked up.

No, the CF card was far from full, and I had new batteries in both the back and the camera.  Also, there was no warning in the viewfinder or on the camera LCD; it remained the same displaying only the exposure setting.

The dial on the remote shutter release was in the correct position, and it wouldn't shoot by pressing the hand-held button either. 

So, I'm still looking for an answer.  I called KEH this morning and I'm waiting to hear back.

Rob
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Richard Osbourne
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 10:19:13 AM »
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My AFD is not a reliable camera - I have regular similar issues with or without the remote. It'll freak out with errors, not take shots, not AF, sometimes causing me to miss shots completely, or mis-time the shutter so I get purple images. It's no Canon 1Ds, to be sure. But the results when it works are sparkling so I'm using it more and more. I've found switching on and off mostly sorts things but, like you, there are times when it refuses to work and when I get it home it'll be fine. It's infuriating but I can't expect anything else from 20 year old technology.
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yaya
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 11:03:11 AM »
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If KEH can't help then it's worth having a chat with MAC's tech support and maybe sending to body in http://www.macgroupus.com/LeftMenu/Service.aspx
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Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2013, 12:14:25 PM »
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The only time I've seen this is when the back wasn't making good contact with the camera. I've had to remove and replace the back because the camera wouldn't fire and that has fixed the problem. Since you tried that I'm not sure what changed between Utah and Seattle. I live in Utah and shoot at elevations as high as 8000 feet and also have shot in hot places (over 100) such as southern Utah and Death Valley without issues. I have had the shutter stick closed but this was a malfunction and needed a repair
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TMARK
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 02:11:35 PM »
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If KEH can't help then it's worth having a chat with MAC's tech support and maybe sending to body in http://www.macgroupus.com/LeftMenu/Service.aspx

I second this.  KEH likely won't be able to help.  MAC group will certainly set you up.  They are prompt and efficient.  They fixed, sometime for free, all of my Mamiya and Profoto issues:  Multiple RZs, Mamiya 7s, Afds, and diagnosed a problem I was having with a rented Leaf back on the phone.

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Graham Welland
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 08:43:19 PM »
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MAC group did a good job replacing the shutter in my DF when it self destructed. No hassles and rapid turnaround. It's been perfect for the last two years - ok, as perfect as a DF can be! Since changing to the new generation body battery and firmware updates the DF has actually been pretty solid and reliable.

My experience with the AFD & AFD II mirrored Richard's though. Some elements of the body/back combination used to cause random failed shots and lockups, requiring a power off, battery out, sometimes back off procedure to reset.
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Graham
Jack Varney
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 10:16:36 PM »
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Another possible, and not mentioned cause, could have been that Auto Focus was on. It is hard for the camera to focus when the mirror is up!

Contaminated contacts between the body and camera generally, at least with my 645 AFD and P45+, result in an excessive delay before the next shot can be made. Also dirty contacts between lens and body will prevent aperture and focal length from being transmitted to the metadata.
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Jack Varney
blumarble
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2013, 09:11:19 PM »
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Hey Jack!  Your suggestion about the auto-focus helped me solve the problem!  After some testing, here's what i found:

If the focus mode selector is set to "S" (single focus) and the lens focus ring is set to auto-focus (forward), the shutter won't release when the mirror is locked up.  If I set the focus mode selector to "M" (manual focus) or "C" (continuous focus), the shutter works.  It also works if the selector is set to "S" but the lens focus ring is set to manual focus (pulled back).

The manual says in part: "Single Focus Mode (S): The shutter cannot be released if the subject is not in focus (if the focus mark does not light).  Continuous Focus Mode (C): The shutter can be released even if the focus mark is not lit."  Seems like I should be able to shoot after getting the focus mark whatever the setting, but I guess not.  However, with the mirror locked up, if I pull the focus ring back (manual focus) or switch to the C or M setting (focus ring in either position), the shutter will release every time.

Thanks for your help guys.

Rob
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 01:56:23 PM »
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I'm not sure which model of Mamiya you have.  Can you disable the shutter release from focusing, and instead use one of the programmable buttons to focus?  That's how most using MLU work, prefocus with the secondary button, compose, lockup the mirror, and self timer or cable release.  I know the DF and DF+ can do that, not sure about earlier models.
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markmullen
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 05:27:01 PM »
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I had the same issue on a newly purchased afd ii, switching to manual focus solved it, thanks all.
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blumarble
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 10:02:52 AM »
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I know what you mean; I have reprogrammed to AEL button on my 5DII to be the auto-focus button, and I like it that way.  But there doesn't seem to be a means of programming an alternate button for focusing on the AFD.

Some additional info...  I received my backup AFD body yesterday, and I tested it to see if it works the same; it doesn't.  No matter what combination the focus mode selector and lens auto-focus is set to, the shutter trips with MLU.  The serial number on the new body seems to be more recent (higher number), so I'm guessing that the shutter not firing on the other body is either an anomaly or a "feature" that they realized really made no sense and reprogrammed it out of the firmware.
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haefnerphoto
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2013, 07:03:58 AM »
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I only use my 645's in manual mode, in fact, I have it taped in that position.  Still there is the occasional malfunction mostly due to poor contact which is easily fixed.  Jim
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ondebanks
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 10:43:58 AM »
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Some AFD bodies were upgraded AF bodies. This might possibly explain why your two AFDs behave differently regarding MLU with autofocus.

You can tell an upgraded AF -> AFD body from a "real" AFD; I've had both and there were tiny mechanical differences between my samples:

Converted AF has a small red spot marking the lens mount point; AFD has a larger white spot.
Converted AF has a large, protruding AF mode dial/switch; AFD has a smaller one which is less likely to get bumped off position.
Converted AF has a slim MLU lever; AFD has a longer, curved one which is easier to operate.

Do you see any of these differences in your two?

Ray
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ericgibaud
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2013, 07:44:05 PM »
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I had the same problem with the 645 AFD II, yes, it all depends on the AF setup, I found it in the manual after thinking camera was faulty :-(
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blumarble
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2013, 06:44:46 PM »
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Both my bodies have the "real" AFD characteristics, not the converted AF to AFD.  Good to know; thanks for the information.
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