Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Is one bird in the bush better than 2 in the hand?  (Read 2977 times)
lowep
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 423


WWW
« on: July 09, 2013, 09:38:19 AM »
ReplyReply

I do both still photography and video and have found so far the best solution for me is a DSLR for stills and separate camcorder for video, as have not yet found a combocam that can simultaneously match the ergonomics of my old Panasonic TM300 camcorder or the IQ of my old Sony A900. But both of these are getting a little long in the tooth now and I am looking to do more prosumer video work so would like to hear from anybody with experience actually using the latest combo solutions like the Sony A99 or the new generation of prosumer camcorders. Has any of these got to the point they can do both stills and video at least as well in terms of ergonomics and field handling as the older legacy single purpose DSLR and video systems do? Or should I stick with my A900 and just look for a better video camera that can shoot progressive and maybe do better in low light than my TM300?

Two of the things that I really like about the old Panasonic TM300 are its long reach zoom (very useful when filming wildlife and maybe harder to manage with a camera with a bigger sensor?), the super in-built image stabilising system that I would not like to do without, and the good battery life that may be not so good with other fancier cameras like the A99?

My concern is not which solution has the most features. It is about which one works best in the field. Not in the studio where everything can be arranged to accommodate the foibles of the camera before the shooting starts. I don't mind carrying two separate kits but sometimes it would be good to be able to flick a button without taking my eye from the viewfinder to move from high IQ stills to fluid video and vice versa.

Maybe the main problem is old habits die hard or maybe it is consumer dreams fostered by camera manufacturers that are not really a reality yet? 
Logged
Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1910



« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 12:58:59 PM »
ReplyReply

My opinion is that there is not one single camera that does both stills & video ergonomically and well.

But I love the Panasonic GH3 and it is one switch to go smoothly from stills to video and back (once set up right).

I use the Panny 40-140 for virtually all my handheld. It has good IS and good reach. Off tripod, the only other lenses I use are the Panny 20 pancake and 14mm. On tripod, I use the Panny 100-300 for serious reach (but not handheld) and a combination of Olympus Zuiko fast primes and Leica glass with an M/m43 adapter.

But the GH3 remains a stills camera that shoots great video - not the other way round.
Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 01:55:50 PM »
ReplyReply

I agree with Chris, except in a lot of ways I think the Panasonic is a great video camera that shoots good stills.

No it doesn't have dual channel xlr inputs, doesn't have the perfect form factor, could use better image stabilization (see Olympus OMD for this).

But . . . compared to the Sony FS100 (which costs 4 times as much) it shoots a better file, focuses as well (with some practice) shoots a good still, and can do more than most photographers need.

Again, though just when I thought the GH3 was all I could need (and I really thought that at first) yesterday we we're shooting with our two RED1's and one Scarlet plus the gh3 for hand held and atmosphere images.

The Scarlet went nuts with it's fan running at full blast (kind of crazy it does this) and was wrecking the sound so I pulled the Scarlet and added a GH3 in it's place.

When I looked at the files from the GH3 compared to the R1's, the difference is not 10, 20, or 30 % it's like 100%.   The R1's are just amazing and it's not file size, it's just the overall look of dr, file, pretty noise etc.

Where the GH3 looks smooth and has ok DR, the R1's look like cinema film. 

Now, if Panasonic wants to flip the world on it's ear, get away from the 4k craze and just add xlr inputs, better stabilization, dual to quad channel sound and some better faster primes that have I.S.

Also for slow motion make sure the sound works (because even if you can't sync sound on a slow mo, that doesn't mean you don't need the foly sound for later.

I look at the GH3's like a 16mm film camera, the R1's as 35mm film camera.

Both have a place.

The Scarlet?   If anybody wants to buy one, give me a call.

IMO

BC
Logged

lowep
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 423


WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 12:53:32 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Chris and Cooter for the useful input. While pondering on my options today I came across this BBC report that I found quite relevant even though it is not about cameras but easily could be:

Some designers believe that people will come to see digital devices in a similar way to utensils
"In the real world, you're not limited to one device," says Mr Underkoffler.
"You can pick up a pen, a pencil or a paintbrush. The drawer in your kitchen doesn't just have a spoon. We have people fighting about UI now about whether it's going to be a spoon or a fork.
"In reality, you're going to have both and a lot more utensils besides."


Logged
bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 04:02:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Your welcome.

Actually, what i want in a video camera doesn't exist.  A form factor more like the Canon C series which is kind of like a 16mm film camera,  stabilization, autofocus as good or better than the gh3 and a RED one file.

Also a constant t2 zoom that doesn't breath, I guess (cough) even at angeniux prices and has an adjustable zoom control.

Built in ND's, and if not a raw file at least a 100mb 10 to 12 bit 4:4:4 file that doesn't require unwrapping.

Next, a grading suite that works in primary and secondaries but mimics lightroom, with tracking controls and a dedicated render card and portable box for laptops.

That would do it and yes I'd pay red prices, medium priced sony prices, probably not Arri prices.

Oh and one more thing.  My gh3 with their wireless software to an Ipad lets everyone see everything you see when shooting video through a live view type of screen that is ok resolution.

The only issue is once you start recording, the wi-fi goes blank, though will transfer the full rez file (if you have a month).

Why not send out the EVF signal like it does until you start filming, because your seeing that signal in the viewfinder?

Just little things would make our life so easy.

IMO

BC

BTW: 2.

Don't discount the GH3 as a stills camera.  It shoots beautiful skintones, has good but not great dr (better than most films had) good detail, looks very film like and both 2.8 constant f zooms are very pretty lenses, especially for video with very nice roll off between the tones.

They're not perfect, but the price is great.

Logged

fredjeang2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 792



« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 05:09:40 AM »
ReplyReply

I work a lot of Red footage in the editing room,
And there is no close comparaison with the gh2 or 3.
In what output is concerned. Both file
Quality, and look.

Red is simply in another league.
I find the flexibiliy of the separate metadata
File RMD simply perfectly implemented.

The Red workflow in Avid is much more
Friendly and flexible.
Even RCX is fully part of the color process
While editing. 90% of the color task can be
Done combining in realtime RCX and Avid,
In any part of the timeline, at any stage,
Without touching the timeline itself.
This is very important. All the changes
Are done in a few seconds from the bins,
Not the cuttin area.
The conform never fails
And for the rest, DaVinci or Nukoda or whatever
Color app.

The only thing, is
the Red color science. It's messy and evolves
constantly. The NLEs have problems to catch-up
when they bring constant evolutions. And the Red
communication in this aspect is not really helpfull.
The jargon confuses, and the only way is go to the
Red forum and check the power users experiences.



The Panasonic GH are great cameras for the price,
But they don't come even close to what Red
Delivers.

Now, if Pana wanted, they could...

I really thing it's only a matter of will from the
manufacturers to bring a really top hybrid
camera with high-end specs and in a small
format package. A mixed between the GH3, the AF100,
and the robustness of Raw video well implemented
like Red did. (raw DNG is not widely supported yet and
metadatas aren't separated)
I think the technology and design is already there
from quite some time now. And I don't see the BMC
camera as representative as what it could be if the big
boys like Pana decide to do something similar.
The BMG seems more like a mini Leica for video reportages,
candid videos or indy filmakers but it goes in the right direction.
I thing the real potential in "combocams" resides in this GH3, 4, 5...if Pana
really stops to mess with their pro line gear.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 03:32:05 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2220


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2013, 06:53:14 AM »
ReplyReply

Generally Id say no - line skipping downscaling and all that pony jus does not really work.

Interestingly Id say that the 4k cameras, sony f5 and maybe BMC4k may actually shoot nice stills (about 8mp) if you can live without flash/AF

(and Epic/F65) but I guess they are not on your finance map.

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 08:19:54 AM »
ReplyReply

Generally Id say no - line skipping downscaling and all that pony jus does not really work.

Interestingly Id say that the 4k cameras, sony f5 and maybe BMC4k may actually shoot nice stills (about 8mp) if you can live without flash/AF

(and Epic/F65) but I guess they are not on your finance map.

S

I don't suggest anyone finance a camera with all the changes going on, but I'd definatley stay away from the F5 for a year until it all shakes loose.

25k for a camera and viewfinder, that shoots an mpeg 2 codec and is waiting for a firmware upgrade, a module and somway to convert it and grade it (to come).

Heck for that price you can buy a RED 1, a bomb, some cards and start working, probably for half the price.

Sure an R1 is heavy, but mine are solid, actually bulletproof and yesterday ran two of them for 4 hours straight in 22 mininute intervals.

As I mentioned my Scarlet's fan goes nuts after a few minutes and I don't know if the Epic sounds like a hair dryer but the Scarlet does and the R1 once again is half price next to almost any 4k capable camera.

Unless you've shot with an R-1 you don't know how film like a digital file can be.

IMO

BC
Logged

UlfKrentz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 308


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 06:28:17 PM »
ReplyReply

James,

Regarding noise, no, the EPIC is even worse as it tends to heat up more than the SCARLET. You can buy a "pimp my ride style" fan upgrade though that will address this issue, no personal experience with those. That said, using the custom settings of the fan speed we did not run into any problems during our work so far. SCARLET has always been fine for me, never let us down and with the recent offer to upgrade it to EPIC IŽd definitly take this into consideration if IŽd were in your shoes. You can trade in your SCARLET after one and a half years use at nearly full value and get a brand new EPIC with new factory warranty. Wish IŽd had seen such an offer on ANY investment I have ever done. The non cropped 5K sensor size and the higher frame rates / less compression alone would make this decision easy for me. YMMV.

Cheers, Ulf
Logged
bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 12:24:31 PM »
ReplyReply

James,

Regarding noise, no, the EPIC is even worse as it tends to heat up more than the SCARLET. You can buy a "pimp my ride style" fan upgrade though that will address this issue, no personal experience with those. That said, using the custom settings of the fan speed we did not run into any problems during our work so far. SCARLET has always been fine for me, never let us down and with the recent offer to upgrade it to EPIC IŽd definitly take this into consideration if IŽd were in your shoes. You can trade in your SCARLET after one and a half years use at nearly full value and get a brand new EPIC with new factory warranty. Wish IŽd had seen such an offer on ANY investment I have ever done. The non cropped 5K sensor size and the higher frame rates / less compression alone would make this decision easy for me. YMMV.

Cheers, Ulf

Ulf,

Thanks for the tip.  I guess I'll have my Scarlet checked out, because we just left it at home.  I can't have talent on set and yell cut, we have to wait ten minutes because of sound.

I dig RED, but sometimes I'm just REDDed out.

IMO

BC
Logged

Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad