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Author Topic: Epson versus HP Printers?  (Read 2277 times)
StudioL
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« on: July 11, 2013, 03:53:39 PM »
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We are looking at purchasing a new printer after using Canon for many years. The printer we are replacing is the Canon IPF 8300. We print mainly on a fiber paper (which the Canon scratches) and canvas paper.

We have heard good things about both Epson and HP. Has anyone had better luck with one versus the other especially with a fiber based paper? Is the tech support good?

Thanks for your help!
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shadowblade
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »
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Epson can print on thicker media, and is compatible with Piezography inks if you want to print black-and-white.

HP inks are much more permanent, but Epson inks have a slightly wider gamut.

HP print heads are also much more replaceable (i.e. they're disposable) if they get damaged by head strikes, irreversibly clogged, etc.
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OliverS
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 01:41:54 AM »
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Are there still HP printers for FineArt in the US? Here in Germany HP went back from the FineArt busines and only sell the HP6200 as a "working mashine" for Posterprinter (also used for Canvas).

Epson is here (Germany) still the Nr.1 in FineArt, nearly (i think) 75% of the customers i work with using an Epson printer.
Why? The time..no one knows - HP tried to come in the photographer szene with the HP 8850 or 9180 but never sold enough printer and than they stopped it. Canon, they have A3+/A2 printer ... itīs like Canon or Nikon // Mac or Win ....

In my opinion, you only have the choice between Epson 9īseries (or 11880 because of bigger ink cartridges) and Canon now.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 01:52:10 AM by OliverS » Logged
shadowblade
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 02:05:04 AM »
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I've got no idea about the US. Here in Australia, the Z3200 is certainly sold as a fine art and photo printer.

Maybe it's just the small, 'home use' photo printers that have fallen through? The Z3200 and Z3100 are very popular.

That said, HP's real strength is its inks. Which is why I'm trying to find a way to run them through Epson print heads successfully, in order to combine with other inks designed for piezo heads, and to allow printing on thicker media.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 02:17:09 AM by shadowblade » Logged
OliverS
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 02:31:14 AM »
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yes, sorry the HP Z3200  Shocked i forgot. But itīs only up to 44".
Should be enough for the thread starter - and the Epson is better for thicker paper? I think itīs up to 1,5mm, what is the best for HP 3200?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 02:34:03 AM by OliverS » Logged
georgek
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 02:37:55 AM »
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The printer we are replacing is the Canon IPF 8300. We print mainly on a fiber paper (which the Canon scratches) and canvas paper.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on this? What papers exactly?

Thanks
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shadowblade
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 04:10:16 AM »
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yes, sorry the HP Z3200  Shocked i forgot. But itīs only up to 44".
Should be enough for the thread starter - and the Epson is better for thicker paper? I think itīs up to 1,5mm, what is the best for HP 3200?

0.8mm, unmodified.

Of course, you can do all sorts of things to printers to let them print on thicker media - raise the print heads, remove various barriers inside the printer, etc. So long as there's a straight paper path. I know someone who's raised a Roland XF-640 to 4.5mm! I don't know how easy this is with HP printers, though.
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Garnick
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 07:54:12 AM »
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We are looking at purchasing a new printer after using Canon for many years. The printer we are replacing is the Canon IPF 8300. We print mainly on a fiber paper (which the Canon scratches) and canvas paper.

We have heard good things about both Epson and HP. Has anyone had better luck with one versus the other especially with a fiber based paper? Is the tech support good?

Thanks for your help!


Just as an aside, I'm curious.  Which "Canvas Paper" do you print on?
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artobest
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 08:01:46 AM »
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Has anyone had better luck with one versus the other especially with a fiber based paper? Is the tech support good?



Speaking as a UK owner, tech support for the HPs is excellent, as long as you purchase extended or post-warranty support. No telephone queues, fast on-site technical support, even out here in the wilds of Wales. I'd hate to own one of these machines without it.

As mentioned, the HP heads are cheaply replaceable, and HPs almost never give clogging problems (in my experience), something that can't be said for Epsons. Technically, Epson's inkset has a slightly larger gamut and finer dithering, but in practice, the differences are not readily apparent. Paper feeding is certainly different, however - Epsons have a reputation for easy sheet loading, HPs not so much! Even so, I've never had a problem feeding any kind of paper into the HP of any thickness (not tried card), and the built-in spectro makes profiling new papers a snap. HP's black-and-white output on matte papers is considered the industry standard.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 08:41:33 AM »
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We are looking at purchasing a new printer after using Canon for many years. The printer we are replacing is the Canon IPF 8300. We print mainly on a fiber paper (which the Canon scratches) and canvas paper.

Why not figure out why your 8300 is scratching your media and solve that first? Lots of people print on fiber based papers on that printer with no issues. That said, fiber media has some issues that causes paper loading issues on all printers - so switching to another printer may not solve your problem at all.

If you're printing from sheets, for example, you're likely seeing lots of curing towards the edges that need to be flattened before loading into the printer. When you put a sheet on a countertop does it lie flat? Fiber media is often nice to work with from rolls for this reason, although some brands are better about avoiding edge curl in their sheet boxes. Epson Exhibition Fiber is surprisingly flat while Hahnemuhle's Fine Art Pearl and Baryta are particularly prone to edge curling for example.

Why don't you tell us what media you're using and exactly what the problem is and we'll go from there? I'm just not sure getting another printer is the right solution.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 09:01:35 AM »
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My thoughts too. Solve the issues that could as well happen on a new printer.

If it has to be a new printer the iPF8400 would give the least changes in other aspects too like repeats of prints that were made on the iPF8300.


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December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 11:33:45 AM »
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If it has to be a new printer the iPF8400 would give the least changes in other aspects too like repeats of prints that were made on the iPF8300.

Have you compared the two? I'm kinda shocked at how much different the x400 printers are, even when profiled the exact same way. The x400 printers have a very warm linearization which you can plainly see on the profiling targets, and the profiles don't completely compensate from this. I've reported this to the top brass at Canon and they act like they haven't seen it themselves, and take the "print may not match across different series" defense. Epson has had far greater consistency from one series to the next.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 11:44:59 AM »
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Strange, my best friend already had an iPF8300 and maybe 6 months now an iPF9400 and I have not heard anything like that. Will ask whether he noticed a difference.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.



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Scott Martin
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 12:44:01 PM »
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Strange, my best friend already had an iPF8300 and maybe 6 months now an iPF9400 and I have not heard anything like that. Will ask whether he noticed a difference.

Yep, unfortunately if you calibrate and profile a 5100, a 8300 and a 9400 all on the same day on the same paper your final prints from the new profiles will all look a little different. Not a big deal for most people but picky printmakers are a little bummed at the differences, particularly those introduced with the x400. If you just print everything on the x400 then you're good of course - you just can't proof on the 8300 or 5100 for example.
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deanwork
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 05:26:20 PM »
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If he's talking about scratching on matte fiber gloss papers he must have a bad media setting because I do tons of it every month for years on the 8300 and the HPZ and never had one scratch with thick rag media or canvas as the result of printer contact.

If he's talking about scratching on the tightly wound gloss fiber media like Harmon Baryta, Canson Baryta, etc. well this stuff scratches on all my printers and it has nothing to do with the printer. The damn paper just curls too much. I know I'm not the only one out there that deals with that. It is especially bad at the last 1/4 of the roll when the paper is even more curled. It is almost impossible to flatten too without a dry mount press and that doesn't help for big prints. Surely they can resolve this somehow. It actually makes me use a lot more rc Canson paper for color that I would normally for larger prints.

john
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sm906
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 10:59:53 AM »
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Are there still HP printers for FineArt in the US? Here in Germany HP went back from the FineArt busines and only sell the HP6200 as a "working mashine" for Posterprinter (also used for Canvas).

Oliver,

how do you know that? I bought a new Z3200 early this year, which was on stock at the dealer for a year or so and he sold out this "old" machines for an extremely attractive price. Now, that he got rid of these older HP's he is back to the usual price tag with new Z3200's.
Indeed, HP does't seem to throw new FineArt Printers on the market, but the Z series is still available her in Germany.

Kind regards

Thomas
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