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Author Topic: ArgyllCMS huge difference between windows and Mac OS?  (Read 5959 times)
LucDelorme
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« on: July 15, 2013, 12:33:29 PM »
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I did a test recently, calibrating and profiling the same Dell U2711 monitor connected to my PC (win Cool, and them on my Mac (10.8.4).  I used the latest ArgyllCMS and DispcalGUI on both platforms, with the Same i1Display Pro sensor.  I was quite surprised to see the difference between the two calibrations (see attached color accuracy measurements).

I used the same methodology and calculation spreadsheet for both, as detailed here (http://stephenstuff.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/complete-display-calibration-with-argyll-cms/) - Great tool BTW!

The Win8 calibration and profile is shockingly accurate, while the Mac OS one is quite horrible.  I have to wonder if the problem lies within the ArgyllCMS packages on either platform, or in the color management system within the OS.  Visually, I could tell that some of the patches were off on the Mac also.

On another note; I was very pleasantly impressed with the performance under Win8.  I didn't think the U2711 would have been that accurate.  There is some variance in uniformity of about -15% in the lower left corner, so it's not perfect, but for the price, it's quite impressive.
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 01:39:13 PM »
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Print a known color target with a wide range of memory colors letting Photoshop manage colors between the two platforms.

Which calibrated display matches the print the closest viewed under a Solux lamp or equivalent daylight balanced viewing light?

Maybe ArgyllCMS tunes its software toward the way Window's systems deal with color managed previews. It's been proven in the past software engineers tend to favor one platform's API over another.

But thats just my guess until you do the WYSIWYG test to determine the reference point for "accuracy" over another. We don't view color patches to judge accuracy, we judge real photos of scenes which involves a completely different way of seeing things.
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chichornio
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 08:32:41 PM »
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I did a test recently, calibrating and profiling the same Dell U2711 monitor connected to my PC (win Cool, and them on my Mac (10.8.4).  I used the latest ArgyllCMS and DispcalGUI on both platforms, with the Same i1Display Pro sensor.  I was quite surprised to see the difference between the two calibrations (see attached color accuracy measurements).

I used the same methodology and calculation spreadsheet for both, as detailed here (http://stephenstuff.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/complete-display-calibration-with-argyll-cms/) - Great tool BTW!

The Win8 calibration and profile is shockingly accurate, while the Mac OS one is quite horrible.  I have to wonder if the problem lies within the ArgyllCMS packages on either platform, or in the color management system within the OS.  Visually, I could tell that some of the patches were off on the Mac also.

On another note; I was very pleasantly impressed with the performance under Win8.  I didn't think the U2711 would have been that accurate.  There is some variance in uniformity of about -15% in the lower left corner, so it's not perfect, but for the price, it's quite impressive.

Same issue here but on Win 7. That`s why I gave up using Mac Os 10.8.4. I just keep my MacBook Pro late 2008 to run Win7 on Boot Camp. In my own experience, everything changed after Apple released Snow Leopard. I don´t know why but I couldn´t calibrate my monitor correctly on Mac anymore. On Win7, the problem was solved (and besides that, I can still use my iOne Display 2 and APS to profile my monitor and HP13200ps printer).
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 12:42:50 AM »
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I too had horrible results on Mac, and tried to find a solution via the mailing list support with no success. How did I solve? Since I use the i1Display Pro I just kept using the maker's software, which is much easier and gives high quality, repeatable results.
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 12:44:59 AM »
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I forgot, I have a Dell U2711. Anyway, even my MacBook Pro's display had quality issue.
Definitely there are troubles with ArgyllCMS, more than OS X alone, since the other commercial products work just fine on a Mac.
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Iliah
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 01:25:35 AM »
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> Maybe ArgyllCMS tunes its software toward the way Window's systems deal with color managed previews.

It is not.
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Iliah
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 01:32:58 AM »
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> That`s why I gave up using Mac Os 10.8.4

Have you tried replacing Argyll binaries with those Graeme published here  http://www.argyllcms.com/disptools.osx64.tgz

More here: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.argyllcms/11230
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 02:24:41 AM by Iliah » Logged
LucDelorme
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 08:56:19 AM »
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Yes, I have replaced those binaries for Mac.  Without them, ArgyllCMS cannot deal with wide gamut on Mac at all.


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Iliah
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 09:03:24 AM »
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Sorry for your trouble. Maybe to try contacting Graeme through argyllcms list at http://www.freelists.org/list/argyllcms ?
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LucDelorme
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 10:11:54 AM »
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That would be a logical next step.  It's not a huge concern for me right now since I do most of my work on PC now that I've switched from Aperture to Lightroom 5, but it's still intriguing.
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 12:04:32 PM »
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> Maybe ArgyllCMS tunes its software toward the way Window's systems deal with color managed previews.

It is not.

It is.

If you can't explain it simply, Iliah, you don't understand it enough according to Albert Einstein. I think I'll go with what ol' Al baby says.
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Iliah
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 12:11:54 PM »
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It is.

If you can't explain it simply, Iliah, you don't understand it enough according to Albert Einstein. I think I'll go with what ol' Al baby says.

So you understand and can explain Mr. Einstein's theory. Good for you. Where is that raw btw?
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 12:24:33 PM »
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It is.
Argyll is open source, so Tim you can point that particular piece of code there, right ?
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 01:12:11 PM »
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So you understand and can explain Mr. Einstein's theory. Good for you. Where is that raw btw?

If you're going to dance the "obtoosy" with my quoting Einstein's views regarding explaining complex concepts (i.e. API driven color managed algorithms, not the theory of relativity), then you're just going to have to continue dancing in the dark by yourself. I don't see any explanations from you that indicates you actually know what you're talking about.

I don't know a lick of code and don't claim to and I don't have to. I also don't need to use ArgyllCMS, but common sense tells me when a piece of software acts differently between two platforms when similarly functioning commercial software doesn't, well all I have to say is when all things are the same...blah, blah, blah...I believe your vernacular or at least it might as well be going by past exchanges with you.

I resort to my old screengrab samples I made of Mac OS 8-9 API driven color managed preview color errors as an indicator of how the math can screw up accurate color just for demonstration purposes here. At least I can show something to back up what I said. How about you, Iliah?
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Iliah
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 01:31:12 PM »
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I can show something to back up what I said.

You said "Maybe ArgyllCMS tunes its software toward the way Window's systems deal with color managed previews. It's been proven in the past software engineers tend to favor one platform's API over another."

I considered it as an honest "maybe".

Next you replaced your "maybe" with "it does".

Now you are to show how. And please show that raw with "colormetrically accurate by the numbers" CC24. Or follow your own note to yourself - "Ignore Iliah's postings from now on for they're a big waste of time to read"
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darlingm
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 01:12:00 AM »
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Try a different calibration & profiling package, if for nothing else, just to see if there's a difference like with argyll.  I recommend basICColor's display.  They have a free trial (14 days perhaps) which would let you try it on both.

The video cards are obviously different.  I don't know Mac's at all.  Perhaps your Mac video card doesn't support loading LUTs (lookup tables), or has some other limitation causing the issue.  (Only applicable if other calibrating & profiling packages have same difference.)

As Iliah mentioned, try the argyll list.  The author is impressively active, especially for free software with a solo author/maintainer.  (This might be something not diagnoseable for him without being at your computers, but who knows.)
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Mike • Westland Printworks
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digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 08:29:28 AM »
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Where is that raw btw?

Must be with the proof you haven’t provided that the ACR engine has an invisible issue. In the box you labelled "all in good time".
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Andrew Rodney
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 01:16:53 PM »
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Quote
"Ignore Iliah's postings from now on for they're a big waste of time to read"

I'm only going to respond to you when you first counter with useless information and will stop responding once I see that's all you've got left. When you stop making sense, I lose interest to respond.

So far you don't come across as very knowledgeable on the subjects discussed here and on the other thread you linked to due to your useless, indecipherable comebacks.
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Iliah
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 01:35:00 PM »
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Must be with the proof you haven’t provided that the ACR engine has an invisible issue. In the box you labelled "all in good time".

Are you saying that raw does not exist?
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Iliah
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 01:36:16 PM »
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So far you don't come across as very knowledgeable on the subjects
You to judge? LOL
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