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Author Topic: The Chinese are coming  (Read 14408 times)
Stefan.Steib
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« on: July 19, 2013, 09:57:44 AM »
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http://techyworld.in/100-megapixel-camera-by-chinese-institute-ioe3-kanban/

http://www.techgig.com/tech-news/editors-pick/Chinese-institute-develops-100MP-camera-IOE3-Kanban-18837

UPS..... ?

Anyone knows more ?

Scratching my Head
Stefan
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 10:00:29 AM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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gerald.d
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 10:06:43 AM »
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According to that article, they were already here 8 years ago with an 81MP camera.

"The institute also developed an 81-megapixel camera during the 10th Five Year Plan period (2001-2005), and the latest achievement took the researchers two years to develop"

I wonder what came of that?

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ced
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 03:44:47 PM »
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Another black box and who cares how many mpx till you see results and product ready for release...
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2013, 06:46:47 PM »
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We've been told it is impossible to produce cutting edge medium format cameras for less than 30,000 US$, right?

What is there to fear?

Cheers,
Bernard
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eronald
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 10:11:06 PM »
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We've been told it is impossible to produce cutting edge medium format cameras for less than 30,000 US$, right?

What is there to fear?

Cheers,
Bernard


There is a horrible danger that large camera sensors might get commoditized, and shock horror some unacceptably cheap back might revive our old Hassleblads and turn them into Frankenblads. Or, worse, someone might make a pop-in efilm cartridge for old 35mm cameras!

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
Rob C
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 02:20:31 AM »
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There is a horrible danger that large camera sensors might get commoditized, and shock horror some unacceptably cheap back might revive our old Hassleblads and turn them into Frankenblads. Or, worse, someone might make a pop-in efilm cartridge for old 35mm cameras!

Edmund



You know what? I suspect that that may actually happen.

Leica R cameras accepted a digital back which, according to those who have one, is pretty damned good...

Rob C
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 02:28:45 AM »
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There is a horrible danger that large camera sensors might get commoditized, and shock horror some unacceptably cheap back might revive our old Hassleblads and turn them into Frankenblads.

Scary thought!

Or, worse, someone might make a pop-in efilm cartridge for old 35mm cameras!

That's why I have kept my F3 and F6! Wink

Although I am toying with the idea of buying a few rolls of film. I could do a film only August photography festival... or something approaching. At least that would protect those images from NSA scrutinity (just mentioning this since Rob is in the thread!).

Cheers,
Bernard


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eronald
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 07:37:36 AM »
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Scary thought!

That's why I have kept my F3 and F6! Wink

Although I am toying with the idea of buying a few rolls of film. I could do a film only August photography festival... or something approaching. At least that would protect those images from NSA scrutinity (just mentioning this since Rob is in the thread!).

Cheers,
Bernard

I guess the NSA has set up a forwarding node inside every Fuji Frontier color enlarger as they are digital, and anyone who does black and white manually is now a suspect of both child pornography and international terrorism. Beware, you have no rights and we are watching you. I listened to the congress judiciary subcommittee witnesses as they rehashed the arguments that they can record the communications of hundreds of millions of people in Europe and use the the information any way the wish because foreigners are not entitled to any constitutional protection. Somehow it reminded me of the arguments in Spain in colonial times, about killing mexicans being allowed because they have no soul as they are not catholic.  But there was an interesting moment where one homeland security guy started desperately pleading that the Europeans had decided to make the companies involved pay a price for this invasion of privacy, and that it was essential that congress place itself between the europeans and the firms which helped the NSA. Now that was funny - I really wonder how congress will be able to force european corporations to put their industrial data on US servers when they know it will be hoovered up and fed to their competitors - did the Catholic Kings also pass a law forbidding mexican indians from running away?

Paranoia aside, it is now a matter of record that the scale of the surveillance of our everyday activities by electronic means to which we are now subject in Europe is now greater than that exerted in Soviet Russia, which used to be held up as a poster child for totalitarian government.

There is also an interesting subsidiary question, raised by all of this, which is why we should bother to have discussions in Europe about democratic process and courts and rights, if just about anyone in the US is allowed to shortcircuit all of our law enforcement procedures inside our countries? Maybe we should just apply to become US states, which would at least supply us with courts that actually have jurisdiction over this sort of stuff, and a voice in the debate on which idiotic country (can you find Irak or Afghanistan on the map?) our soldiers should now be sent to die in, as allies to the US.

Edmund


« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:18:34 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
TMARK
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 09:06:50 AM »
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I really wonder how congress will be able to force european corporations to put their industrial data on US servers when they know it will be hoovered up and fed to their competitors - did the Catholic Kings also pass a law forbidding mexican indians from running away?

Edmund




1.  They already have the data.  The outrage in European governmental circles over the NSA "revelations" is a bit laughable.  (I'm not saying it isn't offensive, it is).  The EU leaders fake some outrage, and the issue will disapear.  The European inteligence services request information from the NSA about their nationals that they are not supposed to watch, and vice versa.  This isn't new.  I first read about this information sharing in the '90's.

2.  They converted the Indians to THE CHURCH.  Once converted, they were free to go, but there was nothing to go back to.  Nice trick.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 09:12:13 AM »
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I guess they didn't pass that law but they invented a Virgin to amalgamate all natives.

Eduardo

I guess the NSA has set up a forwarding node inside every Fuji Frontier color enlarger as they are digital, and anyone who does black and white manually is now a suspect of both child pornography and international terrorism. Beware, you have no rights and we are watching you. I listened to the congress judiciary subcommittee witnesses as they rehashed the arguments that they can record the communications of hundreds of millions of people in Europe and use the the information any way the wish because foreigners are not entitled to any constitutional protection. Somehow it reminded me of the arguments in Spain in colonial times, about killing mexicans being allowed because they have no soul as they are not catholic.  But there was an interesting moment where one homeland security guy started desperately pleading that the Europeans had decided to make the companies involved pay a price for this invasion of privacy, and that it was essential that congress place itself between the europeans and the firms which helped the NSA. Now that was funny - I really wonder how congress will be able to force european corporations to put their industrial data on US servers when they know it will be hoovered up and fed to their competitors - did the Catholic Kings also pass a law forbidding mexican indians from running away?

There is also an interesting subsidiary question, raised by all of this, which is why we should bother to have discussions in Europe about democratic process and courts and rights, if the just about anyone in the US is allowed to shortcircuit all of our law enforcement procedures inside our countries? Maybe we should just apply to become US states, which would at least supply us with courts that actually have jurisdiction over this sort of stuff, and a voice in the debate on which idiotic country (can you find Irak or Afghanistan on the map?) our soldiers should now be sent to die in, as allies to the US.

Edmund


Edmund



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eronald
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 09:14:17 AM »
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1.  They already have the data.  The outrage in European governmental circles over the NSA "revelations" is a bit laughable.  (I'm not saying it isn't offensive, it is).  The EU leaders fake some outrage, and the issue will disapear.  The European inteligence services request information from the NSA about their nationals that they are not supposed to watch, and vice versa.  This isn't new.  I first read about this information sharing in the '90's.

2.  They converted the Indians to THE CHURCH.  Once converted, they were free to go, but there was nothing to go back to.  Nice trick.

TMARK,

It used to be they got only what they were looking for, in dribbles. Now it seems that the US has created a market for wholesale information, retroactively searched, which is a very different thing.

 Also, the outrage seems to be the citizens, not the governments. We thought we had democratic institutions etc, now we realize that after 9/11 all that was taken away - well if Bin Laden was able to dismantle the freedom of private expression inside all of Europe (how can you write or say something in private if one day after a change of regime it will come back to you?)  then he has definitely had the last laugh -

Edmund
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:45:49 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
Rob C
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 11:35:43 AM »
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Scary thought!

That's why I have kept my F3 and F6! Wink

Although I am toying with the idea of buying a few rolls of film. I could do a film only August photography festival... or something approaching. At least that would protect those images from NSA scrutinity (just mentioning this since Rob is in the thread!).Cheers,
Bernard




If my being here helps you get back to film - then my time ain't been wasted!

For myself, I think I've had it with flm. Kodachrome's gone, so what would I gain? I think that digital has simply become too much the norm for me now, and there's no going back. But a huge, affordable (read cheap!) sensor for the F3 would be nice - if I can still get a diopter to suit my new eyes!

Rob C



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eronald
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 12:02:54 PM »
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If my being here helps you get back to film - then my time ain't been wasted!

For myself, I think I've had it with flm. Kodachrome's gone, so what would I gain? I think that digital has simply become too much the norm for me now, and there's no going back. But a huge, affordable (read cheap!) sensor for the F3 would be nice - if I can still get a diopter to suit my new eyes!

Rob C

There was a company making a drop in 35mm sensor, efilm I think, it folded, and people thought it was a scam.
But it wasn't a scam, an engineer said they had working protos.
So some smart kid could surely make the same in a garage these days.
Maybe a chinese kid will.

Edmund


« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 12:20:15 PM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
Rob C
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »
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There was a company making a drop in 35mm sensor, efilm I think, it folded, and people thought it was a scam.
But it wasn't a scam, an engineer said they had working protos.
So some smart kid could surely make the same in a garage these days.
Maybe a chinese kid will.

Edmund





Yes, I remember that from the pages of the BJP!

Rob C
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DanielStone
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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2013, 04:26:37 PM »
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There was a company making a drop in 35mm sensor, efilm I think, it folded, and people thought it was a scam.
But it wasn't a scam, an engineer said they had working protos.
So some smart kid could surely make the same in a garage these days.
Maybe a chinese kid will.

Edmund




Edmund,

these guys?

http://re35.net/

-Dan
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eronald
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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2013, 04:57:44 PM »
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Edmund,

these guys?

http://re35.net/

-Dan

Neat. They should go to kickstarter with that web site.
I don't think it's that hard to do, in fact if we at LL wanted to do I'm sure we have enough engineering ability collectively to do it.

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
bcooter
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2013, 06:49:44 AM »
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If my being here helps you get back to film - then my time ain't been wasted!

For myself, I think I've had it with flm. Kodachrome's gone, so what would I gain? I think that digital has simply become too much the norm for me now, and there's no going back. But a huge, affordable (read cheap!) sensor for the F3 would be nice - if I can still get a diopter to suit my new eyes!

Rob C







If you really want a film like digital camera and long for your F3, drop 500 bucks and find a clean used dcs 760.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/Kodak/index6.htm

Sure, it's just 6mpx, but processes well in ACR, it's ccd so is film like, doesn't like to go over 200 iso very easy, and weighs a lot, but is based on the F5 and a better camera than the F3, way, way better.

It's ancient in electronic terms, but focuses dead on, removable finder and lenses for this range are cheap.

It's not overly smooth like modern dslrs and digital files, sharp as a tack and a deep rich file.

Honestly everybody will diss it, but try it and I think you'll be surprised.

Can it do Kodachrome.  Sure, but doing Kodachrome is easy.  Crush the blacks, bump the sat, smooth the midtones, sharpen the shadows and you've got kodachrome.

It's also got a lot more lattitude than Kodachrome.

IMO

BC
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shadowblade
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 09:42:23 AM »
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What the Chinese can do in terms of cheap medium format backs is mildly interesting. CMOS-based technology, I guess? I doubt they'd be working on CCDs, if they're working from scratch rather than building up from a previous model.

What will be *really* interesting is what they can do in terms of even larger sensors and more 'niche' models (e.g. panoramic) - 4x5, 8x10, 612 and 617 formats, at MF prices. Phase One mightn't be able to sell too may 617-format backs (even scaled down versions, like 24x72mm) at their prices, but if Chinese sensors could bring it down to some sort of reasonable price (e.g. full-frame 617 for the same price as a current IQ-type back, or a 24x72 sensor for the same price as a current full-frame DSLR sensor), there could be more of a market for it.
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jsch
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 01:20:24 PM »
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...

Sure, it's just 6mpx, but processes well in ACR, it's ccd so is film like, doesn't like to go over 200 iso very easy, and weighs a lot, but is based on the F5 and a better camera than the F3, way, way better.

...


It is strange. On images I took with my older camera (F3) my girlfriends look much younger than on the images I took with my younger camera (F5). BTW, I didn't use AF till the Canon EOS 1D (CCD, 1.3x).

And I was much younger too, when I used the F3 strange. I should go and buy a DeLorean, see and wait 10 seconds http://vimeo.com/57418480, the ones with the flux capacitor are so hard to get. But perhaps that will bring more problems than I already have. At least there is still Ilford HP5.

Best,
Johannes
p.s.: Forgive if I talk nonsense. It is hot today in my country we are not used to that.
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 01:57:53 PM »
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In Fine Arts, we had the F3, wonderfull,
Then they bought the F4. I hated it.
It weighted like bodybuilder gear, and
Couldn't hang it properly.
At that time we were shooting a lot at
Nite following the river Seine during hours,
With the F4s it was a complete nightmare,
Back and shoulder pains, almost impossible
To steady.
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