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Author Topic: The Chinese are coming  (Read 19805 times)
rgmoore
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« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »
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The other day someone asked me how I was getting on with the Leica to which I replied it's a joy.

Can't remember the last time I said that about a camera.

Keith,

If my memory serves me, after many years of Hasselblad use it has taken you some time and patience to switch to Leica.

May I ask which Leica and lenses you find useful for the abandoned buildings type of work that you do?

Thank you.

Richard
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #101 on: August 01, 2013, 01:19:16 PM »
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The other day someone asked me how I was getting on with the Leica to which I replied it's a joy.

Can't remember the last time I said that about a camera.

Included the viewfinder...a joy?

What about focussing accuracy ?
I point that because if I'm not Cooter as a creative
Photographer, my only strengh with a camera is that
I'm normaly very good at manual focussing...except...
With the M. 40% of my shots are not spot-on with this
Camera. It's a huge %...

It's a sliding brick.
Can't decide if it's too big or too small,
Electronic reliability is...german built?
(maybe an heritage of DDR)

Now...files are stunning. No question on that.
 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 01:29:56 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
KLaban
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« Reply #102 on: August 01, 2013, 01:21:19 PM »
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If my memory serves me, after many years of Hasselblad use it has taken you some time and patience to switch to Leica.

May I ask which Leica and lenses you find useful for the abandoned buildings type of work that you do?

Richard, I haven't actually switched to Leica, for the moment I've just added an M9 as a walk-around camera. I've an M240 on order and the hope is that with the addition of an EVF and liveview I'll have a system that will allow me to do much that I currently do with the H but at a third of the weight and size. I aim to use either the 21mm Super Elmar-M f3.4 ASPH or possibly the 18mm Super Elmar-M f3.8 ASP. Iíve also experimented using the M9 on a tripod replicating this kind of work of work, the files are excellent but critical framing and composition will be easier with the 240.

In the meantime I'm having great fun with the M9 and a 35mm Summilux f1.4 ASPH. The camera feels analogue in its simplicity and the files have a quality that are similar in feel to the Hasselblad. Perhaps itís the CCD sensor or lack of AA filter, whatever, Iím enjoying the ride.
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KLaban
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« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2013, 01:30:35 PM »
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Included the viewfinder...a joy?

Fred, yes, surprisingly so, although as I said above the EVF and liveview will give me more options.

I have to admit my biggest concern was the rangefinder but I find it easier to nail focus than any other manual focus camera I've ever used.

Great fun.
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KLaban
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« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2013, 02:13:04 PM »
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I should add that I find the resistance of the helicoid to be ideal and again rather surprisingly and despite concerns I love the focus tabs.
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Rob C
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« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2013, 03:09:29 PM »
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Thanks, Rob, we can always rely on your optimistic attitude and positive vibes!


Hey, a least one of my relationships lasted for life! Okay, not a camera one, because they were sabotaged by the industry, but a relationship nonetheless. Optimism is my middle name - or it will be once the lottery turns my way. I think I've even decided that yes, I would probaby buy a Sunseeker after all, even if just for the bragging rights. You see how photography has affected me?

;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 03:18:29 PM by Rob C » Logged

Rob C
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« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2013, 03:18:06 PM »
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Included the viewfinder...a joy?

What about focussing accuracy ?
I point that because if I'm not Cooter as a creative
Photographer, my only strengh with a camera is that
I'm normaly very good at manual focussing...except...
With the M. 40% of my shots are not spot-on with this
Camera. It's a huge %...

It's a sliding brick. Can't decide if it's too big or too small,
Electronic reliability is...german built?
(maybe an heritage of DDR)

Now...files are stunning. No question on that.
 

Hi Fred, I remember you telling me that once when I was tempted - ever so slightly...

I believe the heat wave is going to stretch from the Canaries right through the peninsula and across to the Baleares: we shall have a week between 43 and 45 degrees C.

Let's all go out making pictures in the sunshine!

I washed the car today, and since the slot behind the hood (where the wipers nestle) is impossible to clean by hand, I had to open the hood to clear it (the slot) of dead leaves and flowers from the trees where I park when I go to eat.

Inside the engine compartment I found cooked snails. Poor buggers; I'm sure they must have been as surprised as I was.

When I lifted the wipers off the screen, they left strips of rubber behind. That has never happened to me before in 32 years of living in Spain. Global warming, of course, is a myth.

;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 03:21:47 PM by Rob C » Logged

rgmoore
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« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2013, 06:53:37 PM »
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Richard, I haven't actually switched to Leica, for the moment I've just added an M9 as a walk-around camera. I've an M240 on order and the hope is that with the addition of an EVF and liveview I'll have a system that will allow me to do much that I currently do with the H but at a third of the weight and size. I aim to use either the 21mm Super Elmar-M f3.4 ASPH or possibly the 18mm Super Elmar-M f3.8 ASP. Iíve also experimented using the M9 on a tripod replicating this kind of work of work, the files are excellent but critical framing and composition will be easier with the 240.

In the meantime I'm having great fun with the M9 and a 35mm Summilux f1.4 ASPH. The camera feels analogue in its simplicity and the files have a quality that are similar in feel to the Hasselblad. Perhaps itís the CCD sensor or lack of AA filter, whatever, Iím enjoying the ride.


Thank you Keith.  I appreciate your reply and comments.

While not giving up photography, I am returning to my first love - painting. A Leica and a couple of lenses would be easier to manage in the field (in addition to shlepping around plein air easel, palette, paints, etc.) than my current Nikon outfit.
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KLaban
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« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2013, 02:52:41 AM »
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It's a sliding brick.
Can't decide if it's too big or too small,

Hi Fred, I remember you telling me that once when I was tempted - ever so slightly...

These things are of course comparative.

Try using a Hasselblad H series at well over 2000 grams and then switching to the Leica at 589 grams. Even Rob's D700 is getting on for twice the weight of the Leica.

Add a Thumbs Up http://www.matchtechnical.com/Pages/ThumbsUpEP1.aspx and the handling is a joy.
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2013, 03:04:42 AM »
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Hi Fred, I remember you telling me that once when I was tempted - ever so slightly...

I believe the heat wave is going to stretch from the Canaries right through the peninsula and acrossy to the Baleares: we shall have a week between 43 and 45 degrees C.

Let's all go out making pictures in the sunshine!

I washed the car today, and since the slot behind the hood (where the wipers nestle) is impossible to clean by hand, I had to open the hood to clear it (the slot) of dead leaves and flowers from the trees where I park when I go to eat.

Inside the engine compartment I found cooked snails. Poor buggers; I'm sure they must have been as surprised as I was.

When I lifted the wipers off the screen, they left strips of rubber behind. That has never happened to me before in 32 years of living in Spain. Global warming, of course, is a myth.

;-)

Rob C

Hi Rob
How are you? I see in car mechanics.
Yeah
This eat wave is killing me. It's like workin in slow motion.
At least on the island you got the beaches.
But in Madrid's desert...well at least the air is dry.
Same story every year: i forget to store the batteries
In a proper place and they die because of the intense
Heat.
Frankly I don't know if we are into a global warming
Or another cold age. We are now dying of heat when a couple
Of weeks ago we were freezing our bones in the
Coldest spring ever registered here.
Oh well.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 07:17:17 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2013, 03:45:40 AM »
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Quote
We've been told it is impossible to produce cutting edge medium format cameras for less than 30,000 US$, right?

I don't believe production cost dictate sales price at all..at least for many companies that have an embedded user base that is constant.
In my experience of products I have dealt with, cost of production has never been a limiting factor to pricing a product. There is a market that is willing to pay X amount, and companies will create all types of needs to convince that market the cost of doing business is X, so therefore much pay it. That is surely not for all. But take a look at Sigma and the $6500 SD1. That is one example, now sold for about $2k. But you don't need a book to extrapolate how that might apply elsewhere. Take a refrigerator for example. The average higher end models for a standard standup model ranges in $2000-3000 +/-.  It is mostly a icebox made of insulation foam injected into CnC machined tin, metals. then you have the finishing in SSteel with other options such as water dispenser, ice maker, and other internal features for convenience...all plastic injected from many inter fitting molds. These are made by huge companies like GE and Samsung, LG, etc. You usually get a 1 year warranty on everything , while some offer a 5 or 7, or 10 on the "Seal components", this only means the compressor, the evap and some regulator. The cost of these parts are 5% of the selling unit. Add a modified main board, so sensors relays and some wiring, you have a $3000 icebox. This same unit could sell with a great profit at $1500. but water dispenser, ssteal finish, and LED lighting can ask for the cost to what the demand is.  Wow, how did I get into appliances?! :-) Anyway, there was a time where at least these items would last you 10 or more years. Now they are 4 or a few years if you luck out.
The sad part is the imports are doing it, the domestic are not doing much better.
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If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...
Rob C
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« Reply #111 on: August 02, 2013, 05:20:31 AM »
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These things are of course comparative.

Try using a Hasselblad H series at well over 2000 grams and then switching to the Leica at 589 grams. Even Rob's D700 is getting on for twice the weight of the Leica.Add a Thumbs Up http://www.matchtechnical.com/Pages/ThumbsUpEP1.aspx and the handling is a joy.


That I did not know.

Unfortunately, it isn't also half the price of a D700! Little details like that matter...

By the way, it later occurred to me that my recent post about love affairs with cameras could have been taken as bite at yours; that was not my intention - I have already long wished you the very best with it, and am aware you are hardly an impulse buyer.

My grief with the big Pentax was vibration of both mirror and, worse and unavoidable, shutter. Had it had the 500 Series lens system format, it would have been pretty damned faultless other than the tightness of the loading/unloading clips that scared me every time I wanted to remove a film. It was beautifully made - a work of engineering art. And I found the metered version of the prism finder perfect. Having shutters just on two lenses, neither being ones I'd bought, wasn't much use to me. Woeful flash synch. was a direct result of large focal plane shutter systems. I'd hoped to be able to circumvent the disadvantage, but it didn't work. The weight didn't bother me - it was bought, basically, as a tripod camera, another fruitless move to get larger trannies for stock. Just before digital swept it all aside.

;-)

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2013, 06:31:48 AM »
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Rob, it's an impulse buy that has taken 3+ years of angst and research ;-)

I think sometimes people confuse solidity with heft. The Leica is certainly solid and beautifully engineered and so it should be at those prices!

I take your point about medium format cameras with large focal plane shutters. I dismissed the Leica S system for much the same reasons. Even when using the leaf shutter lenses they work in combination with that focal plane shutter. Not for me.

Keep cool.
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peterv
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« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2013, 06:36:45 AM »
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bcooter,

if you like the M8 files, you should really take a serious look at the Leica S. Maybe not in just any Leica store, but ask Leica USA for a demo and play with the system for a few days. I've had the M8 and now the S2 and the files have the same look/quality, just bigger.
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KLaban
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« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2013, 06:37:17 AM »
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Thank you Keith.  I appreciate your reply and comments.

While not giving up photography, I am returning to my first love - painting. A Leica and a couple of lenses would be easier to manage in the field (in addition to shlepping around plein air easel, palette, paints, etc.) than my current Nikon outfit.

Richard, painting was also my first love and an on and off career. I wish you luminous light.
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bcooter
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« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2013, 12:32:58 PM »
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bcooter,

if you like the M8 files, you should really take a serious look at the Leica S. Maybe not in just any Leica store, but ask Leica USA for a demo and play with the system for a few days. I've had the M8 and now the S2 and the files have the same look/quality, just bigger.

If a single purpose camera would work for me I'd go that way.  If the S had a real oem dedicated tethering suite as robust as C-1 I'd also give it more thought, but my world has changed.

Yes I like the ccd m8 files, probably would like the m9 files (obviously some people do because those cameras are sold out everywhere), and I'm sure I'd love an S series.

The thing is we shoot so differently today.  I'd love the time to set strobes for 2 hours, shoot 1 frame every few seconds (at most) and never here the word video, motion, A roll, B roll, C roll, a cam, b cam, c cam again, but honestly my world isn't like that anymore.

Even for a "dedicated" still shoot that requires "some" video, we'll spend a week on still post production, a month on motion and everybody forgets about the stills, and asks about the video.

I got out of a creative meeting yesterday in NY and the gig was a "still" shoot and was told video wasn't that important.  By the end of the meeting we talked about the video for 1 hour, 20 minutes about the stills because everything shot will go on into in store lcds and on large time square panels and well, lcds move.

To me 7 years ago I'd jump at an S2 or S.   Those were the days where I was a still photographer, not a content provider, but times have changed, client briefs are different and money has to be allocated towards what is expected.

$40,000 for a still camera only is a big outlay, considering the camera is beautiful.

____________________________

Rob,

If you hand held the 6x7 Pentax you did it wrong.  Everybody I've known that used them (some still do) either used strobe with very little ambient light, or shot with 2.5 k hmi's and a full lighting crew and nearly everyone had them on a tripod.

They were great for that, but low light, anything close to 125th of a second produced mirror slap and with long lenses, even higher shutter speed. 

With Polaroid you needed a second body, if you shot fast you needed 4 bodies because loading them took the dexterity of a brain surgeon and considering film cameras (not digital) they weren't cheap and Pentax also had a bad habit of saturating the market with product then disappearing for two years.

I bought one body two lenses once and sold it, because it just was too much work and for 6x7 the real winner was the Mamiya RZ.  That was a huge camera, but for heavy Ad work, (back in the days when a few setups a day were fine), was the camera of choice.

In fact if someone made a new autofocus RZ that fit a cost effective digital back, had a rotating back that registered in the viewfinder, had faster lenses and didn't cost more than an S class Merc, they'd probably sell them like crazy.

Maybe not, because for the Milly generation the pro camera of choice is a 5d3 or a d800.  That group is positive they're in pro territory because it's bigger than their other camera of choice, an I phone.

IMO

BC


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eronald
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« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2013, 03:41:15 PM »
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The M is like a woman - perfect for 5 minutes a month, and unpredictable the rest of the time. We love them for those five minutes, and the rest of the time we leave them at home Smiley

Edmund

Its just batty.  The straw that broke the camel's back was a horrific blooming that manifested as jagged edges poking out of blown highlights, like when shooting a high key backlit portrait where you blow a white background with strobes.  These jagged edges would intrude into the subject, and this isn't pixel peeping, this is at 25% and in a letter sized print.  The M8 did this with window light too, this wasn't an extreme, non-approved use of a digital camera.  Leica NJ told me it wasn't a problem after looking at the raws.  I kept sending them.  They kept deneying there was any issue.  It was like a Rumsfeld press conference, a complete denial of reality.  I later found that the PCB board was bad.  I sold it, after disclosing the issue, for $800.  I wanted to rid myself of the camera and Leica.  I tghen sold my M9 and my Zeiss ZM lenses.  But I missed the M9.  So bought another one and its relatively well behaved, just so long as I don't review images when its writing to the card.  Or use it with less than 50% charge, which is down from 70% after some experimentation with shutter modes, card writing, iso's etc.  And when I sent my M9 to have the RF adjusted, they turned it around in 2 days and wer every nice about everything.  

It is love with the M.

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Manoli
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« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2013, 03:56:24 PM »
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The M is like a woman - perfect for 5 minutes a month, and unpredictable the rest of the time. We love them for those five minutes, and the rest of the time we leave them at home Smiley

Edmund

Tut, tut Edmund - what a sexist remark. I suggest you remove it before Germaine Greer reads it; she'll have your b**s for garters

[smiley]
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KLaban
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« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2013, 03:58:42 PM »
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The M is like a woman - perfect for 5 minutes a month, and unpredictable the rest of the time. We love them for those five minutes, and the rest of the time we leave them at home Smiley

Edmund


Sounds like Swiss Toni.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBw-aEixWuo
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Rob C
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« Reply #119 on: August 03, 2013, 03:20:03 AM »
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Amazing! Must buy some Belgian chocs.

;-)

Rob C
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