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Author Topic: Question about MF vs 35mm in the studio  (Read 2860 times)
Ken R
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2013, 10:51:05 AM »
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Lot's of good advice has already been said.

I also agree that a camera system is a very personal choice. Medium Format Digital systems however do not have as wide acceptance and appeal as say a Canon or Nikon system for many reasons. They do offer some unique possibilities. It's all about the pro's and con's in your specific case and your needs/wants and style.
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pedro39photo
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« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 11:14:26 AM »
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"This is my take on your question. Firstly I have been a medium format and large format shooter for 28 years and have be the proud owner of a Leaf Aptus 75 for the past seven years using it on a Sinar P2, Mamya RZProIID and Mamiya 645 AFDII camera systems."

Since the Nikon D800E and D800 cameras came out last year I have sold all of the above systems cause for me and my business they became completely redundant.

Hello Simon Harper

Can you tell me if your latest works that you have in your website are shoot with D800 ?

http://www.harperphoto.com/latest-images/

How can you deal with product shots and macros with the diffraction limit of the D800 of about f8/f11 ??

Great work...

Pedro
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2013, 12:48:35 PM »
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Hi,

To begin with there is nothing like a hard diffraction limit on the D800, diffraction is same on all systems and increases when stopping down. According to a test Tim Parkin made a Nikon D800 at f/16 outperforms or at least matches a Sony Alpha 900 (24 MP full frame) at f/8. That test of course assumed correct sharpening.

Depth of field is much shorter on larger formats so you need to stop down 1-2 stops more. At least my Sonnar 150/4 maxes at f/5.6 (on axis) and looses significantly at f/16 when used with a P45+: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/76-my-medium-format-digital-journey?start=12

The image you refer to had probably some help from Photoshop, I would guess.

Best regards
Erik






"This is my take on your question. Firstly I have been a medium format and large format shooter for 28 years and have be the proud owner of a Leaf Aptus 75 for the past seven years using it on a Sinar P2, Mamya RZProIID and Mamiya 645 AFDII camera systems."

Since the Nikon D800E and D800 cameras came out last year I have sold all of the above systems cause for me and my business they became completely redundant.

Hello Simon Harper

Can you tell me if your latest works that you have in your website are shoot with D800 ?

http://www.harperphoto.com/latest-images/

How can you deal with product shots and macros with the diffraction limit of the D800 of about f8/f11 ??

Great work...

Pedro
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2013, 04:07:49 PM »
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Hi Pedro,

75% of the shots on my “Latest Page” web site are taken with the Nikon D800E.  Most of the car shots are shot at F16.0 with the D800E and the wine bottles where shot with my Horseman VCC adaptor using a Rodenstock 150mm Rodagon lens.

When it comes to the Rodenstock Rodagon and Apo Rodagon lenses I have found there sweet spot is between F8.0-F16.0.

Ciao

Simon
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Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
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Auckland, New Zealand
MrSmith
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2013, 04:38:26 PM »
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Do you get much C/A with the non apo rodagons?
What are they like sharpness wise in the corners when shifted a bit?
Big difference between them and the nikon's?
Thinking about my next purchase which might be a mint S/H H4D-40 or a horseman/rodenstock system. I like the cleanliness when shooting dark colours like purple's and greens that i feel are better on MFD but I also like the idea of the movements with the horseman and live view that works (MFD iLife view is abysmal)
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2013, 05:03:25 PM »
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Hi Mr Smith,

1/ Never experienced any C/A with any of the Rodenstock Rodagon and Rodenstock Apo Rodagon lenses.
2/ Resolution is sharp as a tack. These lenses are designed with large images circles and are primarily the same as large format lenses without a shutter.
3/ I can’t really say as I use the Horseman when I need its special features. As a past user of a Sinar P2 and recently a Mamiya RZ system I do like the bellows focusing of the Horseman VCC and combined with all the movements I find it indispensable.

When you consider the Schneider PC TS Apo-Digitar 120mm F/5.6 Lens (For Mamiya/Phase One) cost $4,643.00 US this Horseman VCC system is far more versatile and a better cost effective alternative

Unfortunately Horseman don’t make a VCC unit with a Hasselblad mount. They used to but it would be very rear to find one for sale.

Now some self promotion. It so happens that I am selling my original Horseman VCC adaptor which I had an engineer make an adaptor to fit an Mamiya 645 camera body and could be modified to fit an Hasselblad. I designed it in such a way that the camera could rotate from vertical to horizontal without having to unmount the camera. The shortest focal length you can use with the Mamiya attached is the Rodenstock 105mm.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=80412.0

So the versatile of this system for me is indispensable.

Ciao

Simon
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 10:55:05 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
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Auckland, New Zealand
MrSmith
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« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2013, 05:27:31 PM »
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Thanks. I currently use a canon 90 ts-e which for me is indispensable but I wouldn't entertain the 120 Schneider as I know it's not a brilliant lens for the money.
A vcc for a Nikon/canon is never going to be dead money for me and not a big investment as I know it would get used a lot in the studio. There are a few instances where a 40-50mpixel H4 would be of use (not at RRP though)
Think ill sit it out a bit longer and see if anyone starts doing horseman in the U.K.
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2013, 06:57:59 PM »
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Hi Mr Smith,

Total agree with you on the Canon 90mm TS-E lens I have the Nikon 85mm PC-E lens which is great.

When seeing the variety of movements the original and new Horseman VCC can do simultaneously its true versatile comes shining through.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 08:42:59 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
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http://www.facebook.com/harper.photographics

Auckland, New Zealand
darktiger
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« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2013, 09:24:28 PM »
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Thank you everyone for the feedback... 

This is just a hobby, so this would not be used "professionally".  I just wanted to see what opinions on this matter with ones who have switched.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2013, 01:52:44 AM »
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Hi,

I have been shooting something like two months now with the P45+.

My observations this far:

- Sharpness definitively an advantage over my Sony Alphas (24 MP full frame)
- Shooting, the way I do is little difference ( I tend to shoot more frames on the P45+)
- Shadows are cleaner on the Alpha 99 SLT, but now problem on P45+
- Color? I don't know. Sony Alpha is know tno have good color, what it may mean...

P45+ and Hasselblad 555ELD is a keeper, not very practical but fun.

Best regards
Erik


Thank you everyone for the feedback... 

This is just a hobby, so this would not be used "professionally".  I just wanted to see what opinions on this matter with ones who have switched.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2013, 02:42:23 PM »
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Hi,

Here is a page with some raw samples: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/MFDJourney/RawImages/Samples/  Right click on image or download link to for raw image.


Still working on the code for generating the page...

Best regards
Erik
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 02:44:07 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

awphoto
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« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2013, 03:22:47 AM »
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Hi Darktiger

I own and use both Medium Format Digital and several DSLR's.  We often use both on the same job, each one has its inherent advantages. Sometimes we choose just one system depending on the brief, but usually we use both.

For me the super high flash sync speed of the PhaseOne IQ backs is critical, I often shoot outdoors and this gives me great flexibility. Are DSLRs as good as Medium Format ? This would all depend on what you need/want the Camera to do? Sometimes a DSLR is a better choice, oftentimes for me though it's medium format, but this is a consequence of how I like to shoot. I also love the depth, look and feel of Medium Format.

We did a shoot a few months ago at a large TV station here in London, after doing the scout I was certain I'd shoot it all on my Nikons. When we were prepping the day before the shoot, I suggested to my assistant to throw the Phase case in, just in case. On arriving at the location, we set up for the first shot on the DSLR and I just wasn't 100% happy with how the image looked, so I tried the Phase and straight away the shot was right. I know this sound ridiculous, I was shocked. I really thought  we'd use the Nikon. The DSLR shot was very good, but the MF was better. We ended up shooting the whole job with my P30+ back on the Phase One DF+ camera. Why the P30+ ? because this has great files at 800iso, we now also have the IQ180 (this replaced our P65+) and I'm using the sensor plus feature at 20mp's for those times when I don't need an 80mp file.

Last Wednesday we did a magazine shoot with Donovan Bailey (gold medal Atlanta Olympics 100metres, was the fastest man on the planet)  Guess what? We shot the DPS and holding shots with MF and the reportage images with DSLR.

Look carefully at what you are doing and how you are doing it, this is a business decision.

The argument for and against MF isn't just about resolution, for me the look and feel of MF is often preferred. I think it makes getting the shot easier too, when I want something special.

Good luck

Adrian
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2013, 11:57:31 AM »
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After reading all of these response and given the fact I have been about 6 months in shooting MF, I thought I would share my thoughts.  Is MF better?  Absolutely!  For what I shoot (architecture and interiors) and how I shoot (slow and well planned), the system enhance my ability greatly.  

I use an Arca Swiss RM3Di with a P45+.  The first thing that makes this system much better than the DSLRs is the how the camera works, namely independent x and y movements.  This is a much more intuitive design and easier to use, especially if I need to stitch two images together with movements on both axis.  Second, the technical camera lenses (especially with the wides) are far better than any Canon or Nikon (or even Mamiya or Hassy) lens I have ever seen.  They are just so sharp; it is incredible.  They also have no distortion what so ever.  No longer do I need to look at an image and think "is that barrel distortion or is the building not built straight or both, and how do I know how much to remove?"  Now if there is a curve, I know it is the building.  

Finally is the IQ.  Honestly, when I made the jump, IQ was not really a concern.  I know it would be better, but did not expect anything special.  I thought I would still need to do the same layer blending as I did with the Canon.  On my first shoot (an interior job) with the camera, I was able to capture an image in a single capture that I know would have required a layer blend with the Canons.  This impressed me greatly; the DR is just longer.  Additionally, I love the fact that I can do multiple exposures in the same digital capture.  This makes it easier for me to balance interiors even more.  

With all this being said, I shoot slow and take my time.  I always use a tripod, so MF works well for me.  If I shot fast and relied on ambient light, I would not use a MF system.  Also, if this was not a business purchase, I would not be shooting MF.  
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Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
"Try not to be just better than your rivals and contemporaries, try to be better than yourself."  William Faulkner
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