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Author Topic: Economic Crisis Part II  (Read 7479 times)
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2013, 02:32:29 PM »
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Further to the "living wage" discussion and the axioms "die or find another job" and "low wage is better than no wage":

Apple investigates new claims of China factory staff mistreatment

From the article:
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The iPhone and iPad maker is accused of breaching its promise to improve working conditions after the Foxconn revelations by using another supplier alleged to have broken 86 labour laws, including forcing pregnant women to work 11 hours a day, six days a week, standing up.

And why would they (women) do that:

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It said the average hourly wage of Pegatron workers making Apple products is no more than $1.50 (£0.98) an hour, which it claims is not enough to live on and effectively forces staff to work overtime to earn a living wage.

Or give a brand new meaning to the bring-your-daughter-to-work day:

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Pegatron employs workers under 18 – breaching both Chinese law and Apple's strict employment code. "Underage workers often enter the factories as student 'interns' required to work at factories by vocational schools,"
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Slobodan

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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2013, 02:35:53 PM »
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And given the abundance of the latter. . .

No crap, Slobodan. So that's why we need to get more people up here from Mexico -- the lack of jobs?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2013, 02:36:28 PM »
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Come on Slobodan. You supposedly know enough about economics to understand that raising the minimum wage doesn't result in a "living wage." What it results in is less people able to work at all.

I guess that is why your well-meaning Republican friends are hell-bent on repealing minimum-wage and child-labor laws? To make everyone's life better?
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Slobodan

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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2013, 02:37:54 PM »
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Which Republican is that who wants to repeal child labor laws? Give me a name. Fish or cut bait.
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2013, 02:41:08 PM »
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Apple investigates new claims of China factory staff mistreatment

From the article:
And why would they (women) do that:

Or give a brand new meaning to the bring-your-daughter-to-work day:


Golly, you don't suppose China might be a communist country?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2013, 02:41:43 PM »
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Which Republican is that who wants to repeal child labor laws? Give me a name. Fish or cut bait.

The presidential candidate Newt Gingrich.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2013, 02:43:50 PM »
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Golly, you don't suppose China might be a communist country?

The gist of my postings is about Apple, an American company, who moved its business to China precisely because they couldn't treat American workers the same.
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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2013, 02:44:41 PM »
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Okay, give me a reference to the place where Gingrich said he wanted to repeal child labor laws.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2013, 02:49:44 PM »
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Okay, give me a reference to the place where Gingrich said he wanted to repeal child labor laws.

Newt Gingrich: Child labor laws 'truly stupid'

Gingrich stands by anti-child labor law comments
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Slobodan

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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2013, 02:50:18 PM »
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The gist of my postings is about Apple, an American company, who moved its business to China precisely because they couldn't treat American workers the same.

Apple has done some stupid stuff, but before you conclude that their operation in China is causing women and kids terminal grief, tell me how many of these people would starve -- actually die, or at least be worse off -- if they didn't have this kind of work. It's another example of what I was talking about earlier when I said that people try to project their own environment onto others they know nothing about. And I'm not taking Apple's side. I've never been happy with Apple's operation -- ever since, in 1977 when I was faced with a choice between the TRS-80 and the Apple 1.
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mezzoduomo
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2013, 02:55:05 PM »
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Somebody...please....lock this thread.  The usual suspects can't help themselves, as usual.
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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2013, 02:58:04 PM »
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Ah. . . What he said was: Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, the Republican presidential candidate and former speaker of the House challenged laws that prevent children from working certain jobs before their mid-teens.

That's not going to cut it, Slobodan. Gingrich wasn't suggesting we put girls back to work in fabric mills or boys back to work as coal breakers. What he was suggesting is that kids can learn something about the working world by working. I'm with him 100%. When I was a teen I delivered newspapers. Later on I worked in a refreshment stand at the Detroit Zoo. Both jobs gave me an understanding of what it's like to deal with the public and also taught me that it's important to show up on time. Nowadays kids don't have opportunities like that. The bleeding hearts who have taken over are convinced that any sort of labor for a teen is slavery.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2013, 03:18:00 PM »
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... When I was a teen I delivered newspapers...

Knocking on the open door, Russ?

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The nation's federal Fair Labor Standards Act sets 14 as the minimum age for most non-agricultural work, though states can pass stricter laws.

The federal act allows youngsters of any age to "deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movie or theatrical productions; work in businesses owned by their parents with the exception of mining, manufacturing or hazardous job." They can also babysit , perform "minor chores" around a private home, and "gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths."

As for what your buddies are really after (in terms of child labor), Apple, Nike at al are showing us in the third-world countries.

Republican wet dream: unlimited supply of babies (anti-abortion), working at any age for any wage? Wink
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« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2013, 03:22:25 PM »
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Well, Slobodan, I'll have to hand it to you: you've learned the left-wing catechism verbatim and you can parrot it without having to check your notes. Impressive!
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2013, 03:58:04 PM »
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Well, Slobodan, I'll have to hand it to you: you've learned the left-wing catechism verbatim and you can parrot it without having to check your notes. Impressive!

Another example of false dichotomies Bernard was talking about in another thread. Challenging right-wing views does not necessarily make me left-wing, does it? Or vice versa - just ask Stamper (i.e., how many times I challenged his). I like to think of myself as independent and tend to align myself with issues, rather than party lines (I am with Republicans on death penalty, for instance).
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Slobodan

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« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2013, 04:25:32 PM »
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Challenging right-wing views does not necessarily make me left-wing, does it?

Of course not, but spouting views that come right out of the left-wing catechism at least gives that appearance.
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Ray
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« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2013, 08:08:48 PM »
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I see a confusion here between the concept of a minimum wage that an employer must pay to an adult worker, and the minimum amount of money, unemployment compensation, or government-funded  benefits, that an adult requires in order to maintain a healthy lifestyle in sheltered accommodation,  free from starvation, undernourishment or unattended medical problems.

I find it revealing that the unemployment benefits in Australia, for a single person, are about equal to the average minimum wage in the USA of $7.25 per hour, as applied to a 40 hour week.

The minimum wage in Australia is currently over $16 per hour. Since the Australian dollar, in terms of international exchange rates, has approximately equal value to the US dollar, this difference in minimum wage highlights the differences in the costs of living in the two countries.

Most things seem to be cheaper in the USA, especially Adobe Photoshop. Wink
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« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2013, 08:25:06 PM »
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The federal act allows youngsters of any age to "deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movie or theatrical productions; work in businesses owned by their parents with the exception of mining, manufacturing or hazardous job." They can also babysit , perform "minor chores" around a private home, and "gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths."

How nice, Slobodan. When was the last time you saw a kid delivering newspapers? There are two reasons why the answer is "not since I can remember.": First, our society has become coarse enough and dangerous enough that no parent in his right mind would allow a kid to deliver newspapers. Second, the "living wage" bleeding hearts and "minimum wage" ignoramuses want to see newspaper deliverers receive a "living wage." As a result, newspapers have started hiring companies that deliver all the various newspapers in their areas, hire adults, and load them down with many hundreds of papers to deliver each day.

It's really nice that kids can babysit, perform "minor chores" around the house (they'd better!) and gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths, but that's not the same thing as learning what a job is like.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2013, 09:56:02 PM »
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How nice, Slobodan. When was the last time you saw a kid delivering newspapers? There are two reasons why the answer is "not since I can remember.": First, our society has become coarse enough and dangerous enough that no parent in his right mind would allow a kid to deliver newspapers...

But that surely has nothing to do with the "stupid" child labor legislation, does it now?

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...Second, the "living wage" bleeding hearts and "minimum wage" ignoramuses want to see newspaper deliverers receive a "living wage." ...

C'mon Russ, who has ever requested "living wage" for kids!?

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...As a result, newspapers have started hiring companies that deliver all the various newspapers in their areas, hire adults...

As a result of what? As a result of non-existing "requests for living wage for kids"? Or as a result of that "our society has become coarse enough and dangerous enough that no parent in his right mind would allow a kid to deliver newspapers"?

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...that's not the same thing as learning what a job is like.

So, if paper delivery is too dangerous, what exactly would you want them to do? School janitors (as per Newt)? Factory workers?
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Slobodan

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« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2013, 01:00:17 AM »
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Speaking of minimum wage, this article may be relevant here: Why McDonald's Employee Budget Has Everyone Up In Arms/.
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