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Author Topic: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?  (Read 31680 times)
Rhossydd
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« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2013, 12:36:49 PM »
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They'll probably announce that Photoshop/Lightroom subscription bundle that they've heard photographers want.
Yup, $9.99 until the end of the year
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/introducing-the-photoshop-photography-program/

Plus demos of LR on an iPad and other mobile related fluff.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2013, 12:37:10 PM »
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$9.99 pm for LR, PS, Behance and online storage all together and not just as an intro price but permanent.

So it's a lot cheaper, but still rental.

I watched the live broadcast and it seemed to me that all I was hearing was one click this and one click that and instant uploading of everything from your connected device to the entire planet, because apparently everything connected to photography these days needs to be like instagram - in my mind, fine art photography has nothing to do with instagram and one click this, that or the other.

I can see why Adobe are going down this route, they need to keep competitive, but I wonder if they are actually helping to undermine the quality of more serious work, by assuming that all we need is a one click solution to everything.

Dave
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 01:11:51 PM by Dave (Isle of Skye) » Logged

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madmanchan
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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2013, 12:54:13 PM »
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To be clear, it is the offer that is available until the end of the year. 
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Morris Taub
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« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2013, 01:02:44 PM »
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To be clear, it is the offer that is available until the end of the year. 

anyone know if permanent means the price per month will never go up?...having lost faith in adobe management, i'd look for this to be explicit in the monthly contract...

anyone know how much it will be for us in europe? 10 euros a month? More?...probably more...
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2013, 01:05:40 PM »
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To be clear, it is the offer that is available until the end of the year.  

Ah, so it's not permanent, although that was the impression I got when he announced it, and does the bundling of LR into this 'Photographers' package, mean that LR is now also going to only be available through a CC subscription option going into the future?

Dave
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 01:07:11 PM by Dave (Isle of Skye) » Logged

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ButchM
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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2013, 01:11:53 PM »
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Ah, so it's not permanent, although that was the impression I got when he announced it, and does the bundling of LR into this 'Photographers' package, mean that LR is now also going to only be available through a CC subscription option going into the future?

Dave

Dave, as I understand the deal ... the $9.99 (US) is permanent (at least as far as we can take the presenter's word) however, the offer to get in on the deal expires at year's end. In other words ... sing up by Dec. 31, 2013 and you are locked in to the package price ... wait until Jan. 1, 2014 and you miss out on the opportunity ...

Lr has been available in the whole-package CC subscription for some time now ... not available for single app subscription.
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MikeChambers
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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2013, 01:12:20 PM »
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anyone know if permanent means the price per month will never go up?...having lost faith in adobe management, i'd look for this to be explicit in the monthly contract...

anyone know how much it will be for us in europe? 10 euros a month? More?...probably more...

Once you take advantage of the offer, then that is your base price as long as you maintain your subscription. It is possible that prices may rise in the future, but, this is not like the other offers where the price rises to the regular price after a year.

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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madmanchan
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« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2013, 01:25:07 PM »
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Ah, so it's not permanent, although that was the impression I got when he announced it, and does the bundling of LR into this 'Photographers' package, mean that LR is now also going to only be available through a CC subscription option going into the future?

Dave, there are no plans at present to make Lr available through a subscription-only model. 
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2013, 01:34:02 PM »
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anyone know if permanent means the price per month will never go up?
It would naive in the extreme to think anything will remain a constant price.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »
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To be clear, it is the offer that is available until the end of the year. 
But we don't know the value of the "offer".
Maybe that particular package will be no longer an option ? Maybe the price will go up for that combination of products ? Maybe a whole different strategy of subscription offers will be made.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2013, 02:31:26 PM »
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Once you take advantage of the offer, then that is your base price as long as you maintain your subscription. It is possible that prices may rise in the future, but, this is not like the other offers where the price rises to the regular price after a year.

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Hi Mike and thanks for that quick reply.

You know and we know, that the real issue is the "locked in" aspect of the Adobe CC product range that is upsetting and frightening most people away from jumping onto the CC bandwagon, so even though I do realise that Adobe has been listening to some extent, I still don’t think you have listened to us as much as we would have liked you to. What people are saying to Adobe is this, I am more than happy to give you the equivalent of $120 a year, or perhaps even more, but in exchange all I want is the security of knowing that I can use PS without having to balance on the edge of the 'no pay, no use' precipice licensing model that Adobe seems hell-bent on pushing everyone into.

I sincerely thank you and all the people at Adobe for coming up with this revised plan and I am sure if you had launched CC with this pricing structure, then we would have all been more likely to swallow it whole and without too much said against it, but as it now stands, I think people have built up a lot of resentment towards being forced to rent their software, so it is probably going to be too little too late for a lot of people.

It really is a crying shame how Adobe have handled this whole affair and how they have so undermined the trust of so many of their loyal photographic user base - I love Photoshop (yes I do mean LOVE) and I think that is where Adobe went wrong, because you (Adobe) didn't realise how passionate it’s photographic users were, you didn't realise that PS is so much more than a piece of software to a lot of photographers, it is something as coveted to them as an expensive lens or camera would be, we are passionate about the kit we own, our hobby, our profession and our obsession and that is what Adobe did not and still does not understand it seems.

Dave
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:48:19 PM by Dave (Isle of Skye) » Logged

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Rick Popham
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« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2013, 09:14:56 PM »
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+1
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Manoli
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« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2013, 01:00:46 AM »
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*You know and we know, that the real issue is the "locked in" aspect of the Adobe CC product range
*all I want is the security of knowing that I can use PS without having to balance on the edge of the 'no pay, no use' precipice  *people have built up a lot of resentment towards being forced to rent their software,
*how they have so undermined the trust of so many of their loyal photographic user base - I love Photoshop (yes I do mean LOVE)
*you didn't realise that PS is so much more than a piece of software to a lot of photographers, it is something as coveted to them as an expensive lens or camera would be, we are passionate about the kit we own, our hobby, our profession and our obsession and that is what Adobe did not and still does not understand it seems.

Very eloquently put, Dave.

I would only add that since the CC announcement, I get the distinct impression that photographers are looking at other alternatives. Yesterday I would have 'jumped' at the revised offer, today I'm only 'thinking' about it. Dependency, like addiction, is not a healthy condition.

Can but hope that Adobe, in their wisdom, will eventually remove the 'locked out' catch and see fit to 'freeze' one's licence after a minimum subscription period, say 3 years.

---

Just saw Eric Chan's post #43 in 'Adobe has blinked'.

quote
On the other hand, in terms of being able to view and use your images, there is an indirect exit strategy:  Lightroom.  Lr is offered as a perpetual product, so it will continue to run should you choose to end your subscription.  Lr can also read and convert TIFFs and PSDs.  There are limits, of course: you can't directly edit the internals of the document, such as smart objects, adjustment layers, masks, etc.)  But you can still convert to other formats (e.g., export as a new TIFF), print them, etc.
unquote

Well that's refreshing as long as the LR perpetual licence holds. AFAIK, Adobe has only said that there are currently 'no plans' to change the licensing model.  Go on Adobe, implement a 3-year exit strategy and we can all go back to photography ...

ps And give subscribers an option to 'pre-pay' upfront. I don't need or want to add any more credit-card hiccups to my workflow!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 01:33:38 AM by Manoli » Logged
Wayland
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« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2013, 01:24:13 AM »
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Hi Mike and thanks for that quick reply.

You know and we know, that the real issue is the "locked in" aspect of the Adobe CC product range that is upsetting and frightening most people away from jumping onto the CC bandwagon, so even though I do realise that Adobe has been listening to some extent, I still don’t think you have listened to us as much as we would have liked you to. What people are saying to Adobe is this, I am more than happy to give you the equivalent of $120 a year, or perhaps even more, but in exchange all I want is the security of knowing that I can use PS without having to balance on the edge of the 'no pay, no use' precipice licensing model that Adobe seems hell-bent on pushing everyone into.

I sincerely thank you and all the people at Adobe for coming up with this revised plan and I am sure if you had launched CC with this pricing structure, then we would have all been more likely to swallow it whole and without too much said against it, but as it now stands, I think people have built up a lot of resentment towards being forced to rent their software, so it is probably going to be too little too late for a lot of people.

It really is a crying shame how Adobe have handled this whole affair and how they have so undermined the trust of so many of their loyal photographic user base - I love Photoshop (yes I do mean LOVE) and I think that is where Adobe went wrong, because you (Adobe) didn't realise how passionate it’s photographic users were, you didn't realise that PS is so much more than a piece of software to a lot of photographers, it is something as coveted to them as an expensive lens or camera would be, we are passionate about the kit we own, our hobby, our profession and our obsession and that is what Adobe did not and still does not understand it seems.

Dave

Spot on...

My photography is an investment in time and effort and that includes a significant amount of post production work. The idea of being locked out of access to that work and that includes the post production work preserved in a non destructive layered workflow, is abhorrent to many photographers I talk to.

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Wayland.
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Morris Taub
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« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2013, 05:40:20 AM »
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Once you take advantage of the offer, then that is your base price as long as you maintain your subscription. It is possible that prices may rise in the future, but, this is not like the other offers where the price rises to the regular price after a year.

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Hi Mike…yes and no…once again the language adobe uses is not clear. Base price, as you've explained it, means nothing about future price increases. As Rhossydd points out, 'it would be naive in the extreme to think anything will remain a constant price'. The adobe saga continues. now it's 10 dollars a month to start without the 'guarantee' that it will be 20 after the first year. Still, year two could be 20 or 25 dollars a month. It could be more.

I'll wait till the offer is released mid to late september. Try and make sense of the adobe 'language'. See how much a month it will cost me in euros. 15 euros a month, 180 a year, every year, with ever increasing prices is too much.

Like many others, I no longer trust adobe. That is why I search for some clarity in any of the announcements. Man oh man, Adobe could use a good public relations firm. But wait, it doesn't seem that adobe wants to speak clearly to the customer. The number of shifts in pricing and policy in the last year or two is just amazing.

It's a slippery slope all you employees at adobe are facing. I wish you all the best. How long before they lower the guillotine (I currently live in France), and start shedding talent because the subscription model no longer needs the level of innovation or day to day care to keep the software up to date, bug-less, etc.? How long before the shareholders want job cuts to increase their profits?

I'm currently not tied to any company or client base. I can use the software I want to use, so long as it does the job I need. I'm now testing Photoline. I'm going to try Capture 1 and aperture in the months to come with the intention of dropping Lightroom.

Renting my work tools is still a negative proposition for me. Greed from adobe. No choice. The 'our way or the highway' hard sell. Not for me. I wish I didn't have to search for alternatives. I've used Photoshop for around 23 years. I'm a long time customer. I'm loving Lightroom too. Adobe no longer wants me as a customer. It's pretty clear.

kind regards to you and welcome to the forums...
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jrp
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« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2013, 07:20:12 AM »
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mike chambers' clarification is helpful.

I don't know what "base price" means (as distinct from monthly rent) but we are still seem to be being invited to sign up for a pig in a poke: Adobe can choose to increase its prices at any time while we have limited exit strategies.

If the offer was $9.99 in perpetuity that would be a different proposition entirely.

The blog says "To be clear, $9.99 is not an introductory price. It is the price for those of you who sign up by December 31, 2013."  It turns out that this is actually completely unclear.  To be clear, it should add "... until such time as we choose to increase the price." (in which case the $9.99 is, of course, introductory or initial).

Similarly, when the FAQ says that "This means you get all the benefits of a Creative Cloud single-app membership for Photoshop CC, but with Lightroom 5 included as well, for about half the monthly price." it should add "until such time as we choose to change prices."

This sort of equivocation is unhelpful.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 07:48:46 AM by jrp » Logged
lhodaniel
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« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2013, 07:37:19 AM »
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Mike or Eric,

Is the copy of LR provided with this deal perpetual, or does it also go poof if one stops subscribing? I assume this offer requires a yearly commitment. This is the first time I have even been tempted by CC, and I'm weighing the cost of $80 for the LR5 upgrade (perpetual) to this deal.

Regards,
Lloyd
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madmanchan
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« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2013, 09:04:48 AM »
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Is the copy of LR provided with this deal perpetual, or does it also go poof if one stops subscribing? I assume this offer requires a yearly commitment. This is the first time I have even been tempted by CC, and I'm weighing the cost of $80 for the LR5 upgrade (perpetual) to this deal.

Hi Lloyd, the copy of Lr that you get with this deal is a perpetual license.  So you get to keep it if you stop subscribing.  As you said, the offer does require a minimum 1-year commitment.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2013, 09:07:40 AM »
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I don't know what "base price" means (as distinct from monthly rent) but we are still seem to be being invited to sign up for a pig in a poke: Adobe can choose to increase its prices at any time while we have limited exit strategies.

This is where things get difficult.  As I wrote in another thread recently, basically Adobe is saying the standard ongoing price for this deal will be 9.99/mo.  The current plan is to keep the price there indefinitely, but Adobe is also not guaranteeing it'll stay at that price forever.
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StephaneB
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« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2013, 09:36:06 AM »
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Hi Lloyd, the copy of Lr that you get with this deal is a perpetual license.  So you get to keep it if you stop subscribing.  As you said, the offer does require a minimum 1-year commitment.


This is definitely a good deal. I subscribed to the $10/month upgrade subscription hoping the rent would remain at $10. This is very good. I cannot really see where the problem is for anyone who does the math correctly, especially when taking into account the real costs of the other pieces of equipment most users of Photoshop use.
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