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Author Topic: Calibrate NEC pa271w  (Read 8170 times)
rick_k
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« on: July 31, 2013, 07:52:20 PM »
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I just got a new NEC PA271W and I have a X-rite i1 Display Pro and i1Profiler software.

Is it really that beneficial to spend the $90 and get the SpectraView II software for profiling it?

What do I loose if I just use the i1Profiler software?

Thanks,
Rick
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 08:23:43 PM »
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Is it really that beneficial to spend the $90 and get the SpectraView II software for profiling it?
What do I loose if I just use the i1Profiler software?

Yes, you want it. What you lose is the full capabilities of the hardware system, controlled by the NEC software.
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Andrew Rodney
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texshooter
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 11:13:20 PM »
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Yes, you want it. What you lose is the full capabilities of the hardware system, controlled by the NEC software.

Would one of those capabilities include making the display automatically switch to a lower contrast ratio when using a specific icc profile for a specific paper. For example, If my plan is to print on Epson Hot Press, which has a contrast ratio of 45:1, will the NEC software switch the monitor to a lower CR, say 200:1, if I set it up to do so? Or does the monitor stay at 1000:1 at all times?
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Schewe
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 11:36:18 PM »
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Is it really that beneficial to spend the $90 and get the SpectraView II software for profiling it?

Yes...penny wise, pound foolish...The SpectraView software is the only way to calibrate the display in full 10-bit/channel internally. Without the direct connection that SpectraView software you are starting at 8-bit and calibrating the display in 8-bit which when loaded as a LUT will mean that the display will be less accurate. Bite the bullet and do the right thing, your images deserve it, don't you think?
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David Eichler
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 12:05:42 AM »
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Yes...penny wise, pound foolish...The SpectraView software is the only way to calibrate the display in full 10-bit/channel internally. Without the direct connection that SpectraView software you are starting at 8-bit and calibrating the display in 8-bit which when loaded as a LUT will mean that the display will be less accurate. Bite the bullet and do the right thing, your images deserve it, don't you think?

Does this greater accuracy matter when the images will be viewed in smaller color spaces such as sRGB or for CMYK printing, or is this only an issue for inkjet printing and the like, which will typically be done with larger color spaces?

Also, why does the xRite software not offer the same accuracy? It is supposed to be designed to profile a wide variety of monitors. Is the 10 bit/channel capability a rare one among monitors? Is there other xRite software that does offer this capability and similar accuracy to the NEC software, and that would also work on other monitors with the same capability, which the NEC software would not, being proprietary to the NEC monitors?

« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 12:30:37 AM by David Eichler » Logged

Schewe
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 12:24:42 AM »
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Does this greater accuracy matter when the images will be viewed in smaller color spaces such as sRGB or for CMYK printing, or is this only an issue for inkjet printing and the like, which will typically be done with larger color spaces.


Yes...look, when you take an 8-bit display and then do a calibration plus profile, the end result is less than 8-bits/channel precision–which leads to banding (particularly in the shadows) and less accurate color. This is the whole reason why a 10-bit display pipeline is so important–better accuracy. While a full 10-bit/channel is only available on Windows and CS5 and above, the key to the NEC and EIZO displays is the internal to the display is a 10-bit/channel calibration before profiling. That makes a potentially big difference. Why buy a display that can calibrate internally in 10-bits and then fail to use the software to be able to control the internal calibration? And no, X-Rite can't control the internal calibration in 10-bits...all it can do is calibrate in 8-bit with the luts which is less good.
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texshooter
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2013, 12:59:02 AM »
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Also, why does the xRite software not offer the same accuracy? It is supposed to be designed to profile a wide variety of monitors. Is the 10 bit/channel capability a rare one among monitors? Is there other xRite software that does offer this capability and similar accuracy to the NEC software, and that would also work on other monitors with the same capability, which the NEC software would not, being proprietary to the NEC monitors?



I too found this odd. Xrite can make the colorimeter that NEC uses to calibrate at 10 bits with NEC's software, but Xrite can't make the software themselves. Maybe it's a business deal rather than a lack of know-how.
http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/01/choosing-right-display-calibration.html
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David Eichler
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2013, 01:13:57 AM »
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Looks like this thread, while somewhat dated, is still relevant: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/736938?start=80&tstart=0

So, the benefits of the greater bit depth are only available when using Photoshop, not Lightroom, or am I misunderstanding something? And, the maximum benefit is only available with Photoshop and
Windows, not with Apple OSX, which is what I have (10.8.4).
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2013, 02:01:39 AM »
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So, the benefits of the greater bit depth are only available when using Photoshop, not Lightroom, or am I misunderstanding something? And, the maximum benefit is only available with Photoshop and
Windows, not with Apple OSX, which is what I have (10.8.4).

No...you still don't get it. When calibrating (setting the white point and gamma), only displays that have internal communications that can deal with the calibration in 10-bits precision can take advantage of this potential. X-Rite can't communicate with the display internals...only the display software can.

There is a difference in having a 10-bit calibration and a 10-bit pipeline (as provided by Windows and Photoshop CS5 and above). Don't confuse the differences...

As far as I know, only NEC and EIZO offer a 10-bit calibration process...before making the final profile. That's the value you get from the SpectraView software–direct display control in 10-bit/channel precision. Other than NEC and EIZO, all other displays start at 8-bit and only get worse after calibration...that's what you get with X-Rite (or other non-display connected software).
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David Eichler
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 02:19:02 AM »
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No...you still don't get it. When calibrating (setting the white point and gamma), only displays that have internal communications that can deal with the calibration in 10-bits precision can take advantage of this potential. X-Rite can't communicate with the display internals...only the display software can.

There is a difference in having a 10-bit calibration and a 10-bit pipeline (as provided by Windows and Photoshop CS5 and above). Don't confuse the differences...

As far as I know, only NEC and EIZO offer a 10-bit calibration process...before making the final profile. That's the value you get from the SpectraView software–direct display control in 10-bit/channel precision. Other than NEC and EIZO, all other displays start at 8-bit and only get worse after calibration...that's what you get with X-Rite (or other non-display connected software).

Thanks. Good to know about the NEC and Eizo and 10 bits too.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 09:03:17 AM »
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Thanks. Good to know about the NEC and Eizo and 10 bits too.

You are also getting full control over the electronics in the panel using their software. Set one (or many) target calibrations and walk away to calibrate without having to adjust any buttons or settings. Load one (or a differing) calibration target and the software loads that and the associated ICC profile for you. Without SpectraView, the hardware is providing you less functionality, you're crippling it.
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Andrew Rodney
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David Eichler
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2013, 01:23:56 PM »
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I too found this odd. Xrite can make the colorimeter that NEC uses to calibrate at 10 bits with NEC's software, but Xrite can't make the software themselves. Maybe it's a business deal rather than a lack of know-how.
http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/01/choosing-right-display-calibration.html

I guess it is because there is a limited number of monitors offering this capability and those manufacturers offer their own software, so why should xrite bother?  By the way, will Eizo's propriety software also work with the xrite puck?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2013, 02:15:39 PM »
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Software isn't X-rite's strengths.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 02:19:06 PM »
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Ordering my Spectraview software now. :-)
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 02:31:04 PM »
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Software isn't X-rite's strengths.

After rummaging around the factory service menu of my 32" Samsung HDTV entering a code number on the remote I found online, I can understand why it would take some sophisticated software to tune the internal electronics of a display.

That service menu was an endless series of nested color/gamma/WB adjustments that seemed to go on forever. Guess whatever Samsung used at the factory to tune the darn thing did a bang up job because when I calibrated and profiled it with the ColorMunki Display attached to my Mac Mini, the resulting RGB video card LUT viewed in Colorsync Utility was a clean, flat line with no wrinkles on all three channels. I've never seen that happen on the four 8 bit internal LUT computer displays I've used past and present.


So yeah, I'ld have to assume software is king when it comes to tuning electronically proprietary internal 10 bit LUTs on a display.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 02:36:09 PM by Tim Lookingbill » Logged
texshooter
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2013, 03:20:38 PM »
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By the way, will Eizo's propriety software also work with the xrite puck?


yes.

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/01/choosing-right-display-calibration.html
http://www.xritephoto.com/ph_pressroom.aspx?News=689



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WombatHorror
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2013, 09:24:04 PM »
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I just got a new NEC PA271W and I have a X-rite i1 Display Pro and i1Profiler software.

Is it really that beneficial to spend the $90 and get the SpectraView II software for profiling it?

What do I loose if I just use the i1Profiler software?

Thanks,
Rick

absolutely get the spectraview II!

If you don't you won't get internal calibration and the whole 14bit internal 3D LUT will mostly go to waste.
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WombatHorror
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 09:25:52 PM »
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Thanks. Good to know about the NEC and Eizo and 10 bits too.

The PA271W is actually a lot better than a simple 10bit 1D internal engine it has a full 14bit 3D color engine inside.
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