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Author Topic: Ricoh GR as a landscape camera  (Read 6244 times)
powerslave12r
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« on: August 01, 2013, 09:43:47 AM »
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So considering everything, the new Ricoh GR is an unbelievable package, which ticks all the check boxes one could ask for. The resolution of the lens is excellent and the high ISO performance is great. Everything on it is pretty much on par with modern cameras and it's costs only $800 new!

Add to that built in ND, 1/2000th sync, no AA filter, excellent in camera options (snap focus etc)

Am I missing something? Why isn't the world going gaga over this camera? Why do I not see any pictures from this camera here?

From what I understand this is a serious competitor to the DP Merrills.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 05:41:28 PM »
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I am not going gaga over it because:
- the Sigma DP2m that I own is superior in terms of landscape image quality,
- 28mm is too wide for general street shooting.

Cheers,
Bernard
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powerslave12r
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2013, 05:57:48 PM »
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I am not going gaga over it because:
- the Sigma DP2m that I own is superior in terms of landscape image quality,
- 28mm is too wide for general street shooting.

Cheers,
Bernard


I was almost prepared to order the GR but as you mentioned, the focal length put me off for general usage, and for landscape photography, the DP2m is arguably better. So I ordered the DP2m.

If they can put in a 35 or 50mm lens on that GR it will be the greatest thing this side of an RX1 I think.
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Gregs
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2013, 07:48:22 PM »
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Still can't fathom why the 28mm focal length gets so little attention, and no respect!! For landscapes - particularly mountaineering - its been been my favorite focal length, beginning with the amazing 50mm (28 equiv) lens for the Mamiya 6. 28 mm to my eye trumps the seemingly more popular 24 mm focal length, the latter almost "too wide", with more obvious/artificial shrinking of distant structures (eg, peaks). 28 is wide, but just barely, and seems more "natural" than the more blatantly wide 24. Its been great for me for street shooting and general travel use as well. Even more puzzling is the apparent paucity of really good optics in that focal length from many of the major brands, who seem to produce better lenses at 24 or 35 mm lengths. 35 mm is a great length too, so perhaps combining that with a 28 for a kit leaves two focal lengths which are perhaps too close. Finding a great 28 has always been more difficult. For me, the GR is a dream come true. Nikon choose 28 for its GR equivalent as well (coolpix A).
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powerslave12r
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 08:50:01 PM »
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Still can't fathom why the 28mm focal length gets so little attention, and no respect!! For landscapes - particularly mountaineering - its been been my favorite focal length, beginning with the amazing 50mm (28 equiv) lens for the Mamiya 6. 28 mm to my eye trumps the seemingly more popular 24 mm focal length, the latter almost "too wide", with more obvious/artificial shrinking of distant structures (eg, peaks). 28 is wide, but just barely, and seems more "natural" than the more blatantly wide 24. Its been great for me for street shooting and general travel use as well. Even more puzzling is the apparent paucity of really good optics in that focal length from many of the major brands, who seem to produce better lenses at 24 or 35 mm lengths. 35 mm is a great length too, so perhaps combining that with a 28 for a kit leaves two focal lengths which are perhaps too close. Finding a great 28 has always been more difficult. For me, the GR is a dream come true. Nikon choose 28 for its GR equivalent as well (coolpix A).

I am tempted to say different strokes for different folks. My thought process went like this.

> Ricoh GR vs RX100 vs DP1m vs DP2m.
> RX100 pocketable and perhaps the perfect always on you camera. But I use my phone as the always on me camera.
> Ricoh GR - perfect in every department! But then I'm not going to replace my DSLR with this, I'm buying this for a lightweight companion while hiking etc for shooting landscapes. It can do this job very well, but..

> I can do better! DP1m or DP2m is perfect for landscapes. Between the two I chose DP2M as the 45mm equivalent FL is versatile and I can do stitches as well.

That said, I ABSOLUTELY have fallen in love with Ricoh GR and I am really really tempted by it.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 10:36:48 PM »
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Between the two I chose DP2M as the 45mm equivalent FL is versatile and I can do stitches as well.

Exactly, with the amazing progress made by stitching software, it is now often better to pick the longer focal length when in doubt.

As far as 28mm vs 35mm goes, this is just a matter of personal preference.

Cheers,
Bernard
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powerslave12r
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2013, 10:51:36 PM »
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Exactly, with the amazing progress made by stitching software, it is now often better to pick the longer focal length when in doubt.

As far as 28mm vs 35mm goes, this is just a matter of personal preference.

Cheers,
Bernard


Just as an aside, is there a specific stitching software that works particularly well with the DP2M?

I use the Microsoft ICE software for stitching shifted panoramas from my tilt-shift. I have heard good things about PS stitch but I am not willing to spend that much money for just stitching software. Perhaps PS elements might do the trick. Does PS elements' stitching option do a good job?
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2013, 11:09:36 PM »
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Just as an aside, is there a specific stitching software that works particularly well with the DP2M?

I use the Microsoft ICE software for stitching shifted panoramas from my tilt-shift. I have heard good things about PS stitch but I am not willing to spend that much money for just stitching software. Perhaps PS elements might do the trick. Does PS elements' stitching option do a good job?

I use PTgui pro and Autopano pro generally speaking. I have not noticed anything specific with the DP2m.

So far I have only done hand held panos with it and have not had to many parallax issues on moderately distant subjects.

Measuring the nodal point position and using a pano head would of course be easy for panos including close elements.

Cheers,
Bernard
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powerslave12r
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2013, 11:11:32 PM »
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I use PTgui pro and Autopano pro generally speaking. I have not noticed anything specific with the DP2m.

So far I have only done hand held panos with it and have not had to many parallax issues on moderately distant subjects.

Measuring the nodal point position and using a pano head would of course be easy for panos including close elements.

Cheers,
Bernard


Excellent I'll look into both those. I tried ptgui a long time ago, I don't recall how my experience went.

Curious, have you tried Microsoft ICE (assuming you're on windows and it works only on windows), it works rather well. Not sure if it's technically accurate or not, but the nature landscapes come out excellent.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 11:50:29 PM »
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Curious, have you tried Microsoft ICE (assuming you're on windows and it works only on windows), it works rather well. Not sure if it's technically accurate or not, but the nature landscapes come out excellent.

Nope, I am currently on OSX, but have a Win7 VM I could use.

Ice seems pretty good, I am just not sure it was optimized for large panos/best control/best image quality as the 2 I am using are.

I may try it some day, but it is not on my short term list of TTD.

Cheers,
Bernard
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xocet
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2013, 02:27:12 AM »
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Just as an aside, is there a specific stitching software that works particularly well with the DP2M?

I use the Microsoft ICE software for stitching shifted panoramas from my tilt-shift. I have heard good things about PS stitch but I am not willing to spend that much money for just stitching software. Perhaps PS elements might do the trick. Does PS elements' stitching option do a good job?

I don't have a DP2, but Autopano Pro has coped with pretty much everything I have thrown at it, including stitches from film scans.

If you want something that is very capable, but that is free, give Hugin a try.  There is a wizard that suffices for many stitches, but if you have more complex requirements, there's a huge range of options with attendant learning curve.  There are some very useful tutorials linked through the Hgin site.
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powerslave12r
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 08:02:10 AM »
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Nope, I am currently on OSX, but have a Win7 VM I could use.

Ice seems pretty good, I am just not sure it was optimized for large panos/best control/best image quality as the 2 I am using are.

I may try it some day, but it is not on my short term list of TTD.

Cheers,
Bernard


I have had really good results with ICE for simple shifted panos. The only problem I had one time was with exposure blending between two frames in this image. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/garagenoise/9209725110/lightbox/)

I don't have a DP2, but Autopano Pro has coped with pretty much everything I have thrown at it, including stitches from film scans.

If you want something that is very capable, but that is free, give Hugin a try.  There is a wizard that suffices for many stitches, but if you have more complex requirements, there's a huge range of options with attendant learning curve.  There are some very useful tutorials linked through the Hgin site.

I had tried Hugin a very long time ago but I don't think I gave it a fair chance back then. I'll look into it again. Thanks!

I'll keep in mind Auto Pano Pro too.
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Gibbomik
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 07:28:42 AM »
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As many have said, it comes down to personal preference. Looking for a relatively pocketable landscape camera I bought the DP2M and kept it for a year before changing to a Ricoh GR.

I was frustrated with the DP2M by "less than hoped for" dynamic range - highlights easily lost (perhaps this was partly a failing on my part though) and a "fuzzy" lcd. Others mention better image quality - I would agree in terms of resolving power but not in some other areas.

The Ricoh GR so far seems to be giving me more dynamic range and I also appreciate the close focus ability without needing any add-on lenses. Both cameras are cabable of fantastic B/W conversions.

Both are excellent devices for making images but I find the Ricoh GR to be more "useable" for me. I agree with comments that it would be great to also have a longer focal length GR.

Thanks

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powerslave12r
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2014, 09:58:05 AM »
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As many have said, it comes down to personal preference. Looking for a relatively pocketable landscape camera I bought the DP2M and kept it for a year before changing to a Ricoh GR.

I was frustrated with the DP2M by "less than hoped for" dynamic range - highlights easily lost (perhaps this was partly a failing on my part though) and a "fuzzy" lcd. Others mention better image quality - I would agree in terms of resolving power but not in some other areas.

The Ricoh GR so far seems to be giving me more dynamic range and I also appreciate the close focus ability without needing any add-on lenses. Both cameras are cabable of fantastic B/W conversions.

Both are excellent devices for making images but I find the Ricoh GR to be more "useable" for me. I agree with comments that it would be great to also have a longer focal length GR.

Thanks



Funny that you should bring that up. I'm looking at a ricoh GR as an addition to the DP2M. Smiley All said and done, the Ricoh offers a lot more over the DP2M while coming close in detail resolution. (Flame suit on.)
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thermalanomaly
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2014, 06:10:59 PM »
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Went through a similar exercise this spring. DP1M vs Ricoh. Got the Ricoh as it was more versatile. But I was really fascinated by the Sigmas as a result of my research so I got a DP3M which I really enjoy. Just yesterday decided to expand the range with a DP2M. Bought everything used +9 conditions each under 500. So minimal investment and each could be resold. So far I'm enjoying shooting with each of these cameras. DP3M the most. Learning curve on the Ricoh higher IMO. Sigmas very simple. Image quality not that close In my limited experience. In ideal conditions Sigma is unbeatable. I do a lot of backpacking and if I want to carry a small light package the Ricoh is a no brainer.
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powerslave12r
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 08:25:56 AM »
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Went through a similar exercise this spring. DP1M vs Ricoh. Got the Ricoh as it was more versatile. But I was really fascinated by the Sigmas as a result of my research so I got a DP3M which I really enjoy. Just yesterday decided to expand the range with a DP2M. Bought everything used +9 conditions each under 500. So minimal investment and each could be resold. So far I'm enjoying shooting with each of these cameras. DP3M the most. Learning curve on the Ricoh higher IMO. Sigmas very simple. Image quality not that close In my limited experience. In ideal conditions Sigma is unbeatable. I do a lot of backpacking and if I want to carry a small light package the Ricoh is a no brainer.

Thanks for that information. Could you share some of your photos taken with any of those cameras?

When you say Image Quality not that close, are you saying there is a tangible increase in IQ with the Merrills?

One thing to consider would be that the Ricoh is comparable to the DP1M, which, as mentioned in many a review is slightly less 'gooder' than the other two DP Merrills.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2014, 05:27:36 PM »
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I am a HUGE fan of the Nikon 28 1.8 for wide landscapes.
It's light, cheap, very sharp and an easy focal length to use polarisers on.

The GR is interesting, but I would still like to change lenses on whatever compact I get.

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Gregs
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2014, 07:14:12 PM »
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I've been using the Ricoh GR for several months now and have been blown away by image quality and usability. Also purchased the DP2 last year, and just this past week the DP3. The unique virtues of the Merrills  (Foveon sensor magic, sharp lens) is well documented in the forums; the Ricoh is sort of a sleeper. They're different classes of camera (due to sensor), and not really interchangeable alternatives: the Ricoh much smaller, lighter - truly a "pocket" camera. Ergonomics are close to perfect, having evolved with incremental changes over many prior iterations of digital and film GR's - all with superb 28mm fixed lenses. The dynamic range/high iso performance is far greater than that of the Merrills - the latter really a low iso camera, ideally used with a tripod in less than bright light. The Ricoh punches way above its weight, with a very sharp lens (corner to corner) and malleable raw files. If 28mm floats your boat, I'd go for it. I've attached a couple of test neighborhood images of both, all handheld, with minimal processing in LR/SPP, converted to Tiff. Ricoh shots capture sharpened in LR with amount 40/.8/60 detail and Sigma in SPP with sharpening at -2,  exported to LR with minimal sharpening (amount 10-15/.Cool. See link to uncompressed files (dropbox). A few are shots of same scene. Not totally scientific comparison, since I didn't use a tripod, etc., but would give you idea of what the Ricoh is capable of in terms of sharpness.  Ming Thein has a nice review on his site.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/DP2%20Merrill-.tif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/DP2%20Merrill-0228.tif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/DP2%20Merrill-0229.tif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/DP2%20Merrill-0230.tif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/Richo%20GR1%20%281%20of%201%29.tif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/Richo%20GR1-000074.tif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29225785/Richo%20GR1-000104.tif
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Telecaster
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2014, 08:34:25 PM »
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Lately I've grown to like the ~75° (diagonal) field of view more than I used to. (I'm not much of a wide angle guy overall.) I think this is due to using 4:3 aspect ratio cameras so much. The 35mm lens on a Pentax 645D or 14mm on an m43 camera doesn't seem as stretched looking through the viewfinder as a 28mm on a 135 camera (or 17/18mm on APS-C) does. Though I've been using a couple different 28s on an A7r too. Hmmm…maybe my taste is just changing with advancing age.   Smiley

-Dave-

(BTW it's currently raining absolute torrents here in southeastern Michigan. This is after already receiving more than double our usual August allotment, including the heaviest single day of rain in any month during the past 90 years. WTF?!)
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David Anderson
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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2014, 12:10:37 AM »
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(BTW it's currently raining absolute torrents here in southeastern Michigan. This is after already receiving more than double our usual August allotment, including the heaviest single day of rain in any month during the past 90 years. WTF?!)

Global dampening ?
Suggest you collect the run-off and sell it to rich californians.. Wink

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