Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs  (Read 9664 times)
BobDavid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1058


« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2013, 07:53:42 AM »
ReplyReply

I know some folks who bought CF39 MS backs. The word from Hasselblad was that they'd support those backs for ten years. Perhaps a class action suit will materialize. Just another sign that H's future is uncertain.
Logged
sbernthal
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 166


« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2013, 08:05:43 AM »
ReplyReply

Leaf are still supporting their backs from 2005.
To the best of my knowledge all Aptuses are still serviceable.
Logged
jerome_m
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 522


« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2013, 08:17:40 AM »
ReplyReply

I know some folks who bought CF39 MS backs. The word from Hasselblad was that they'd support those backs for ten years. Perhaps a class action suit will materialize. Just another sign that H's future is uncertain.

The wording from Hasselblad can be found here:
http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/after-sales-policies/spare-parts-for-discontinued-products.aspx


Spare parts for scanners, digital backs and integrated cameras can be supplied for at least 5 years after production stops. Hasselblad will to the best of its ability supply spare parts for such products up to 10 years after production stops.

It says "5 years warranty", not "10 years". Make sure you find the exact wording they used 5 years ago before you sue them.
Logged
jerome_m
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 522


« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2013, 08:18:14 AM »
ReplyReply

Leaf are still supporting their backs from 2005.
To the best of my knowledge all Aptuses are still serviceable.

The question was: Do you know any company manufacturing cameras which include digital electronic parts and which warranties service for longer than 5 years? You are not answering that question. Of course there are electronic cameras which are still serviceable after 5 years.

A positive answer would be from a company that would warranty now that their cameras will be serviced in 10 years (or would have written so in the past).
Logged
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1646



WWW
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2013, 08:21:31 AM »
ReplyReply

I believe other manufactures - such as Leica - are having problems with the continuity of supply of spares and this is having an impact on the warranted or expected service period.

Put it like this, if I was now thinking of spending 15,000 to 30,000 on a new camera/back then I'd want a guarantee of service and support in excess of 6 years.

With the turnover of new models increasing this problem is only going to get worse.
Logged

TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1834


« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2013, 08:38:39 AM »
ReplyReply

Warranty and support are two different issues.  Support implies that they cannot be repaired.

The message, as perceived, is that H3D and earlier models can't be fixed if they go bad.  That is not what they are saying, but that is the perception.  As stated earlier, they should have set up the third party service in all their markets and been very clear about what limited service Blad will provide. 

This is another fumble.  I bet they are all smiles at Phase/Leaf today.

The wording from Hasselblad can be found here:
http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/after-sales-policies/spare-parts-for-discontinued-products.aspx


Spare parts for scanners, digital backs and integrated cameras can be supplied for at least 5 years after production stops. Hasselblad will to the best of its ability supply spare parts for such products up to 10 years after production stops.

It says "5 years warranty", not "10 years". Make sure you find the exact wording they used 5 years ago before you sue them.
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2753


WWW
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2013, 08:48:04 AM »
ReplyReply

Leaf are still supporting their backs from 2005. To the best of my knowledge all Aptuses are still serviceable.

The question was: Do you know any company manufacturing cameras which include digital electronic parts and which warranties service for longer than 5 years? You are not answering that question. Of course there are electronic cameras which are still serviceable after 5 years.

A positive answer would be from a company that would warranty now that their cameras will be serviced in 10 years (or would have written so in the past).

Since you asked...

  • Phase One provides guaranteed service on all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs. The first of these was released in 2004. I see no signs of this support ending anytime soon.
  • Phase One discontinued guaranteed service of H series (not to be confused with backs which mount to an H body) backs last year, the first of which was released in 1998 and the last of which was released in 2003. They will still gladly take such a back and do a service check and can do a variety of repairs for them like sync port replacements, but they cannot guarantee it will be repairable as they lack certain internal components which can no longer be sourced.
  • Phase One provides (via their dealers) up to a five year initial warranty on new IQ and IQ2 backs and up to a three year initial warranty on new P+ backs.
  • Phase One will gladly provide (via their dealers) warranty extensions in increments of one year for as long as the user wishes to extend it. This applies for all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs, so, if it made sense for your business, you could continue warranty on a P20 or P25 released in 2004. In practice I don't know any of our customers that have a warranty still on a P25, but I do know a small number that have continued their warranty on P45 units (released in 2005); all are product/catalog shooters for whom the back is still a daily workhorse and the cost of the warranty is more like a form of insurance which guarantees they won't have to make room in their budget for an unexpected camera-replacement or camera-repair cost.
  • Phase One has also provided continued software support for every single-shot back they have ever produced. You can use Capture One v7 in Windows 64 or OSX 10.8 with a Lightphase back released in 1998; in fact because of improvements to the underlying raw processing math the image quality will be significantly better with that combination than it was the day it was released.

Leaf provides service on Valeo 17 and later (released 2003). This of course includes the more recent Aptus, Aptus S, Aptus II, and Credo lines.

Both Leaf and Phase backs can be used on any compatible body (not just "matched" pairs) with a pretty good history of both forward and backward compatibility. For instance a P25 from 2004 works on a DF+ from 2012 an IQ from 2011 works on an AFD1 from 2002 (this combo is not officially supported and is a bit buggy sometimes, but given the age difference it works pretty darn well). This is relevant to the discussion at hand because if a body becomes unserviceable (i.e. is dropped off a cliff) a replacement body can be had from any source (KEH, eBay, forums, dealer, rental house etc) this increases the long term viability of a given back or body.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 09:04:23 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
BobDavid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1058


« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2013, 08:55:22 AM »
ReplyReply

At least a few regional hassey reps assured folks that their backs would be supported for ten years. Just 'sayin.
Logged
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1646



WWW
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2013, 09:03:16 AM »
ReplyReply

I bet they are all smiles at Phase/Leaf today.

Actually this announcement was made over a month ago and the discussion since has been heated, but yes, it can only benefit Phase/Leaf.
Logged

Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2753


WWW
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2013, 09:06:41 AM »
ReplyReply

The statement is on Hasselblad-Bronica site:

http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=179

It does not concern the H3DII.

That's Hasselblad "Bron" not Bronica. As in Broncolor.
Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1834


« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2013, 09:15:21 AM »
ReplyReply

They seem to be flailing around.  Lunar, the Steller.  Now this.  They make a fine product, no doubt, but the impression is that the company is screwy and desperate.  I'm not sure if that's the case, but giving that Italian gentlement who was head of product marketing at DeLonghi might not have been the best idea. 


Actually this announcement was made over a month ago and the discussion since has been heated, but yes, it can only benefit Phase/Leaf.
Logged
Douglas Fairbank
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


Classic V, support for V system cameras in the UK


WWW
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2013, 09:44:36 AM »
ReplyReply

There are good reasons and bad reasons for a company closing support for a certain model and I cant list them all here and I don't know what factors played a part in these changes.
But there are other things that are not under the control of a company that effect long term plans. For example changes in health and safety regulations among other things can effect the supply of components and a redesign of the product might not make commercial sense, you cant look into a crystal ball to see what legislation or ground-breaking technology is coming.
Service and support must be profitable where the product has a long life with a supply of components continuously made or set aside, the standard of the servicing must maintain the original standards of the product. If these are not fulfilled it will be a drain on the company and is untenable. The standard of service enjoyed by V system owners was a direct result of the longevity of the design and continuous production.
All the readers of this forum know what their equipment is and how it differs from the mainstream of photography and is is not realistic to compare it to mass produced items.
With the coming of 3D printing mechanical servicing may actually become cheaper (unlikely) but niche electronic designs are something else.
I don't think anybody with any affection for medium format will be smiling.

Logged

Douglas Fairbank LRPS
jerome_m
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 522


« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2013, 10:23:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Since you asked...

  • Phase One provides guaranteed service on all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs. The first of these was released in 2004. I see no signs of this support ending anytime soon.
  • Phase One discontinued guaranteed service of H series (not to be confused with backs which mount to an H body) backs last year, the first of which was released in 1998 and the last of which was released in 2003. They will still gladly take such a back and do a service check and can do a variety of repairs for them like sync port replacements, but they cannot guarantee it will be repairable as they lack certain internal components which can no longer be sourced.
  • Phase One provides (via their dealers) up to a five year initial warranty on new IQ and IQ2 backs and up to a three year initial warranty on new P+ backs.
  • Phase One will gladly provide (via their dealers) warranty extensions in increments of one year for as long as the user wishes to extend it. This applies for all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs, so, if it made sense for your business, you could continue warranty on a P20 or P25 released in 2004. In practice I don't know any of our customers that have a warranty still on a P25, but I do know a small number that have continued their warranty on P45 units (released in 2005); all are product/catalog shooters for whom the back is still a daily workhorse and the cost of the warranty is more like a form of insurance which guarantees they won't have to make room in their budget for an unexpected camera-replacement or camera-repair cost.
  • Phase One has also provided continued software support for every single-shot back they have ever produced. You can use Capture One v7 in Windows 64 or OSX 10.8 with a Lightphase back released in 1998; in fact because of improvements to the underlying raw processing math the image quality will be significantly better with that combination than it was the day it was released.

This is obviously a better service than the one Hasselblad provides, but is still not an answer to the original question: Phase one never committed to repair any digital back beyond 5 years after date of sale. And as Douglas Fairbank pointed out a post above, it is unlikely that any company is doing that, because 5 years is a very long time for electronic products.

Don't misread me: I am very impressed by the level of support provided by Phase one and quite disappointed by Hasselblad announcement. But I know that support for electronics is usually pretty poor after a few years and that does not only concerns MF cameras.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 10:25:45 AM by jerome_m » Logged
jerome_m
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 522


« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2013, 10:29:07 AM »
ReplyReply

Warranty and support are two different issues.  Support implies that they cannot be repaired.

The message, as perceived, is that H3D and earlier models can't be fixed if they go bad.  That is not what they are saying, but that is the perception.

Indeed this is not what they are saying. Hasselblad will still repair the mechanics on the bodies and still services backs on some H3D models (e.g. the H3D-31). The backs are still supported by Phocus. Backs like the 22 and 39 mpix can still be adjusted or their IR window can still be exchanged.
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2753


WWW
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2013, 10:34:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Service and support must be profitable where the product has a long life with a supply of components continuously made or set aside, the standard of the servicing must maintain the original standards of the product.

I do not agree.

Service and support should be set up efficiently such that it's not a huge resource-drain for the overall company, but it need not turn a profit.

It's a perfectly viable business model to say that your service and support departments function to reinforce customer loyalty and insure brand value is maintained. Ideally a service/support department functions so well, and is needed so infrequently, that customer interactions with that department are so positive they serve as defacto marketing.

I've personally had experiences with service/repair on products I owned (outside my day job) where I was so impressed that my likelihood of recommending the product to others, or to personally buy more in the future, was influenced in a way no marketing campaign could ever could. I think about these personal experiences anytime I'm involved with one of our customers in a repair/service/support situation.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 10:45:51 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1646



WWW
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2013, 11:19:11 AM »
ReplyReply

Gosh, what a very strange day this is, I now find myself in complete agreement with Doug ;-)
Logged

pedro39photo
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 94



WWW
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2013, 12:02:12 PM »
ReplyReply

This will be a big hammer in the price of the used hasselblad market...we will see a big price drop of the H3D 39MP for example.
And its very important because for a vast number of photographer they start in the DMF with used systems.

After this we will see again anyone pushing 4500$ for a used H3D 39MP mark I Huh?

I love hasselblad, i start DMF with a used H3D 22MP 2 years ago and now a H3DII 39MP and the experience and the support have been 5***** stars, super great and fast feedback of my questions allways.
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2753


WWW
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2013, 12:17:11 PM »
ReplyReply

Gosh, what a very strange day this is, I now find myself in complete agreement with Doug ;-)

Well we both post frequently enough it was bound to happen sometime Smiley.
Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Ben Rubinstein
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1733


« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2013, 12:35:47 PM »
ReplyReply

What's the situation in the DSLR world on this kind of thing? Not that you can compare it, at those prices it's not that big a deal. This is more in comparison to the car world.
Logged

Nick-T
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 462


« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2013, 02:51:51 PM »
ReplyReply

This will be a big hammer in the price of the used hasselblad market...we will see a big price drop of the H3D 39MP for example.


Good news then! The armchair experts on this forum are always asking for cheaper MFDB..
Logged

Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad