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Author Topic: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs  (Read 11385 times)
bcooter
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« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2013, 03:00:39 PM »
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I do not agree.

Service and support should be set up efficiently such that it's not a huge resource-drain for the overall company, but it need not turn a profit.

It's a perfectly viable business model to say that your service and support departments function to reinforce customer loyalty and insure brand value is maintained. Ideally a service/support department functions so well, and is needed so infrequently, that customer interactions with that department are so positive they serve as defacto marketing.

I've personally had experiences with service/repair on products I owned (outside my day job) where I was so impressed that my likelihood of recommending the product to others, or to personally buy more in the future, was influenced in a way no marketing campaign could ever could. I think about these personal experiences anytime I'm involved with one of our customers in a repair/service/support situation.


Doug,

I agree, but really I don't think it works that way.

I just bought a car last year.  Great dealer service, actually more than perfect.  The dealer's margins had to be tiny in the way they worked with me.

Had a friend ask about my car, gave them the dealers card, explained how they went above and beyond and he went and paid more for another brand and now doesn't like what he bought.

I've seen this a lot, in cameras, cars, computers . . .

People buy what they want to buy, no matter how much info you furnish, unless it's negative.

IMO

BC
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2013, 05:34:28 AM »
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Yeah but I went back to my dealer multiple times when I was buying cause they didn't quibble on service. Perhaps others will ignore me but I know what brands and stores I prefer to buy from when I'm dealing professionally, i.e. when I can't afford to lose service.
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design_freak
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« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2013, 08:29:03 AM »
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Hooray, another wise move  Grin
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bcooter
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« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2013, 01:59:37 AM »
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Hooray, another wise move  Grin

That's really not a fair statement.

I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever.  I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files.  OK I guess I should say real lucky.

Anyway, the high end market  .  . . actually the market for all cameras has taken a hit in the last couple of years.   The camera of choice of the millenials and their parents is a cell phone and those amateurs that use to load up one roll of neg film a week in their Bronicas, Blads and Nikons kept us all in professional equipment. 

Lately Hasselblad has taken a lot of heat for the lumina and in a way I can see some of it is justified, but they're just pushing for a market that a lot of companies is going for.  I saw on the Wall Street Journal Yesterday, $5,000 lingerie with real gold stitching.   There market is Russia and some of the Arab states.  I would imagine that is the same for the lumina.

The only thing I can really fault hasselblad for is their software.  It's not bad, it's not great and honestly if you buy an h5d at this point it really should be great.

Other than that, they're just trying to turn a profit.

What I find more interesting is the fact that a large percentage of the younger assistants I work with all want to shoot some kind of film camera.  I guess they feel they missed something (maybe they did) and film cameras are cheap, but their next choice is a cell phone.

That can't be good for any of us.

IMO

BC
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2013, 02:56:19 AM »
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Hi,

I don't really think that keeping support for old cameras is much of an effort, unless there is a disruptive change like Apple switching software platform to 64-bit, and even a disruptive change can be handled with good coding practices.

I nevertheless feel that the present way with inconsistent raw formats is crazy. In film days we had a lot of slide film options but a single process, E6. Well, except for Kodachrome, of course. No one invented a new process for each film.

Best regards
Erik



I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever.  I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files.  OK I guess I should say real lucky.


IMO

BC
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torger
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« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2013, 06:01:29 AM »
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Owning old mf gear is a risk. The system is designed to stay with the upgrade programs. For a professional I would not recommend to enter mf if you cannot motivate the cost of staying with the latest and have the proper service programs. For an amateur like myself, second hand market has never been better, but don't buy for more than you can lose. Phase and Leaf should have credit for their long term support though, but electronics cannot be serviced forever, spare parts stop being manufactured.
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pedro39photo
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« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2013, 11:40:21 AM »
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The Hasselblad have a large number of DMF user that still use the olds H1/H2/H3D and several love the H body system and lenses and use Phase backs.

Anyone looking to enter in DMF, could start with a old H1/H3D body and invest lost of money in Hasselblad lens, and them upgrade for a new generation system like the H3DII or H4D.

But with this news of no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital, maybe the new DMF user chose to start with other systems...

Anyone now if its possible to buy a H4Dx with good trade in price if anyone with a old H1/H2/H3D have a fatal malfunction with no repair?
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2013, 02:25:13 PM »
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The electronic components themselves have a very short obsolescence period.  Think about getting ram for an old MAC or getting a replacement disk drive reader.  I guess these parts fail less often, but it might be hard for a company to keep a stock of say sensor chips sitting around where the cost is really high so I can understand the service problems on something like a digital back.   

But you have to wonder what is going on at the top of Hb just looking at the trajectory ... the lunar, the discontinuation of the V, news about another consumer camera instead of new MF backs, and now the service thing. Hmmm...    Hopefully they will offer people with these non serviceable backs a nice trade in price.

For me, I have a CF-528 which I use on my Rollei 6008AF and not a H camera, so even if they offered me a big trade in value on that back I wouldn't be able to take it. 




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design_freak
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« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2013, 03:06:54 PM »
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That's really not a fair statement.

I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever.  I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files.  OK I guess I should say real lucky.

Anyway, the high end market  .  . . actually the market for all cameras has taken a hit in the last couple of years.   The camera of choice of the millenials and their parents is a cell phone and those amateurs that use to load up one roll of neg film a week in their Bronicas, Blads and Nikons kept us all in professional equipment. 

Lately Hasselblad has taken a lot of heat for the lumina and in a way I can see some of it is justified, but they're just pushing for a market that a lot of companies is going for.  I saw on the Wall Street Journal Yesterday, $5,000 lingerie with real gold stitching.   There market is Russia and some of the Arab states.  I would imagine that is the same for the lumina.

The only thing I can really fault hasselblad for is their software.  It's not bad, it's not great and honestly if you buy an h5d at this point it really should be great.

Other than that, they're just trying to turn a profit.

What I find more interesting is the fact that a large percentage of the younger assistants I work with all want to shoot some kind of film camera.  I guess they feel they missed something (maybe they did) and film cameras are cheap, but their next choice is a cell phone.

That can't be good for any of us.

IMO

BC

it was sarcasm ...
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DF

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jerome_m
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« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2013, 04:31:54 PM »
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Anyone knows if its possible to buy a H4Dx with good trade in price if anyone with a old H1/H2/H3D have a fatal malfunction with no repair?

The H1/H2/H3D bodies can still be serviced without problem. The H4x can only be traded in against a H1 or H2/H2F, not an H3.
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JV
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« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2013, 01:33:25 AM »
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I am still hoping that the collaboration between Sony and Hasselblad will eventually result in something great...
but it is true that every time Hasselblad has been in the news lately the message was not exactly hopeful...
Some communication that emphasizes that HB is committed to its MFDB offerings would probably be appreciated by lots of people...

Most software companies typically only support the last 2 major releases, in HB terms that would be H4 and H5...

See also communication last year about Leica no longer replacing the LCD screen of the M8:
http://lavidaleica.com/content/storm-brewing-over-m8-lcd-issue

It is very sad... If you have an M1 to M7 chances are that it will still work a long time from now, if you have a M8 or M9 most likely not.

Same for Hasselblad.  The V cameras risk outliving the H cameras...
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 02:13:35 AM by JV » Logged
torger
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« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2013, 01:44:53 AM »
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Due to the pricing people expect longer term support and service than for typical electronic products, and they should. So while I do think the long-term support from some of the MFDB manufacturers is impressive I think it's something you should expect for a product costing $30K at its release.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2013, 01:45:50 AM »
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Same for Hasselblad.  The V cameras risk outliving the H cameras...

I think a lot of older stuff was designed to last a lifetime - just needing service or an adjustment every now and then.  Products now are designed to be replaced every few years - its part of a business plan that also downplays service when they will have a new one to offer you when your current one breaks.      Funny how that is - I live in an old victorian house.  People said it would be expensive with all the old things that would need fixing.  But actually its the opposite...  all the old things, light fixtures, etc. just keep going, but all the new stuff breaks every few years and has to be replaced.  Makes me angry because the cost of the parts is cheap the time and effort to replace stuff is not. I'd rather pay more for something that lasts.

Love my Rollei's for this.  My TLR keeps working like new and its a lot older than I am. Plus all of their cameras can be serviced.  Same for the Linhof's.   I would have said that for the Leica too but the DMR already not so sure, but the older ones are fine.  I kind of love the old stuff for all that.
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woof75
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« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2013, 03:50:14 PM »
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Who cares, the H3D is a disastrous, I'd say unusable system with horrible skin tones. Just get a D600 already. (and yes, I've used almost everything on the market)
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Nick-T
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« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2013, 04:43:40 PM »
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Who cares, the H3D is a disastrous, I'd say unusable system with horrible skin tones. Just get a D600 already. (and yes, I've used almost everything on the market)

This is a stunningly ill-informed comment. Are you suggesting that all the H3D cameras with both Dalsa and Kodak chips produce horrible skin tones? That doesn't make any sense.

There are 1000's of photographers shooting people with these cameras are you suggesting that none of them have noticed that they are using disastrous/unusable cameras with horrible skin tones?

 Huh
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woof75
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« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2013, 06:06:32 AM »
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Yes, maybe I spoke a little rashly. However, the skin tones are so red, it struggles with anyone who isn't whiter than white.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2013, 06:16:36 AM »
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Hi,

Which raw converter did you use?

Best regards
Erik


Yes, maybe I spoke a little rashly. However, the skin tones are so red, it struggles with anyone who isn't whiter than white.
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woof75
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« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2013, 07:41:44 AM »
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Hasselblads own software.
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Douglas Fairbank
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« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2013, 07:56:37 AM »
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Do you have the latest version (2.7.4) and are you 100% sure that there are no adjustments being applied to the imported images, it's very easy to overlook.
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woof75
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« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2013, 08:09:48 AM »
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Yep, I did very extensive tests, Hasselblads skin tones are just kind of red. Also, as a camera I just didn't get on with it, actually, I've never hated a camera more. I owned it for about 2 weeks, sold it, lost 2 thousand dollars on it when I sold it and I was still super happy because I didn't own it anymore. Bought a Nikon D600 and was shocked at how good the files are. Couple that together with an massively better shooting experience and you can see why Hasselblad are struggling.
N.B. I have always previously shot Medium format phase backs and Leica M9's which used to be superior until this latest generation of Nikons came out.
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