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Author Topic: Wide landscape lenses for Phase One - what do you like?  (Read 4597 times)
Don Libby
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2013, 02:40:50 PM »
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Just a couple quick thoughts on stitching multiple images.  There's generally three options for stitching (and I've done them all at one time or another).

Handheld moving the camera as steady as you can overlapping from left to right as you go along.  Generally good for single row applications.  It'll do in a pinch.

Setting the camera on top of a sturdy tripod using some sort of pano gear.  I used to use the RRS full pano gear and got excellent results for multiple images/multiple row captures (the most I ever did was 9, 3 on each row).  The down fall from either this or the handheld method is no matter how hard you try you just can't get the lens nodal point accurately 100% of the time.  Multiple images stitched this way are going to give you what looks like a bowtie effect when they are merged together; sometimes more extreme than others but it'll be there nevertheless.

This lack of precision on stitching was one of the reasons I chose a tech camera (in my case a Cambo WRS).  The lens remains in place while the back is moved around it thus creating a flat stitch with near perfect image without the bowtie with no worries on figuring out the nodal point.

There you have it - 3 separate ways to do a stitch each getting progressively complicated and expensive.

Don


And now we return to the question of best wide len for a Phase One....
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gerald.d
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2013, 03:35:20 PM »
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Except... the "bow-tie" effect is down to the projection you choose to view the stitched image in.

I've had a lot of experience in stitching images. Everything from 2 shots up to 4,500 shots.

The best advice I could give to anyone looking to get into this, is to buy one of the "proper" stitching solutions. Personally, I'd recommend either PTGui or Kolor's Autopano. I own them both, and I've extensively used both.

I'm fairly confident that I could create a shift-stitched image and a pan-stitched (spun around the nodal point) image, using the same lens for both, and no-one would be able to tell which was which.
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torger
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 05:10:38 AM »
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I've done some stitching too, although I almost completely stopped as I got a medium format system. (I prefer one-shot captures). Knowing how to properly tune your panohead/lens for parallax point makes a huge difference. Stitching can be quite complicated to make right too, but then again I used Hugin which is very competent but extremely hard to use for the beginner. Autopano is much more easy to use.

Today there are a few motorized heads to choose from too. If you put effort into a pano system you can get really good results. Hardware and software for it exists, but it can be hard to set up and do it right from beginning to end.

I have a hard time motivating the cost of medium format if one is going to stitch anyway, so I'd prefer use a D800 or other DSLR when stitching. Easier for the head to manage the weight too. But if you already have an MF system it could be worthwhile to use that, with an IQ180 you don't need to stitch as much for the same resolution. My Linhof Techno with sliding back (4 kg and 40 cm wide) does not fit well in my nodal ninja pano head though :-)
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narikin
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2013, 11:15:53 AM »
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But NOTHING in the SLR world can compare to the quality of the modern Rodenstock and Schneider lenses (not to mention you gain the ability to do a flat stitch, add perspective control and/or tilt-swing with a tech camera). These tech camera lenses are designed without a mirror box which allows them to be either fully symmetrical or only modestly retrofocus rather than the severe retrofocus design required when designing around a fixed mirror box size.

+1 with bells on.

I compared a Phase One/Schneider 55mm LS to tech camera lenses of same/ similar length, and the difference was like night and day. no subtle pixel peeping, just worlds apart. Resolution corner and central, color fringing, distortion. completely different levels. As Doug says it is partly the design limitations of having a mirror box as much as anything else.  But still - you might need autofocus, a faster aperture, and to be able to see what you are getting through a  prism, none of which is possible with Tech cameras. As always YMMV.

As in 35mm digital, you have to note that a new generation of ultra resolution lenses are arriving, designed for highest level digital sensors. It seems they are appearing now for FF35mm and Tech cameras, but not as yet for MF dSLR's.  The newest MF lenses from Schneider and Rodenstock for Tech cameras are very very sharp, definitely up with latest backs. The Zeiss 135mm f2 Sonnar that Michael makes such a fuss over here, as "the worlds finest lens", etc, does in fact have a performance not quite as good as the Rodenstock 100mm Digaron-S  when both are at f5.6, if I am reading the MTF charts correctly.

And by the way, the P65+ is a wonderful back. Congratulations.
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Rob Whitehead
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2013, 12:15:04 PM »
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Thanks Narikin,

The P65 - I've been shooting with it now for 24 hours Smiley

Still don't know what the wides are like. Back arrived just after sunset yesterday, headed straight out (MFDB's aren't so hard to work out I found out) and took some longish exposure shots with the 80mm LS and the 75-150 D (beautiful detail, horrible noise - and so many dust bunnies!). I was brave and waded out into the salt water to take the first shots - didn't want to start my MF experience with a brick wall. No crocs and the camera - suprisingly - didn't get wet on its first Australian outdoors experience.

Only got some handheld shots in today, again with the 75-150, which were OK but I'm really interested in tripod/MUL/cable release type quality (which is how I shot the first night). Just need to actualy get some daylight shots in and try the 28mm/35mm/45mm. Shooting an event (concert) tomorrow, most of the bands are on after dark and so I think the 5DMk3 gets to come rather than the DF for this one.

Despite not having even seen the wide angle quality these lenses can produce, this thread and my other reading/research has convinced me that for some of my landscapes a tech camera is the way to go. Adding a Cambo WRS with a Rodie 45mm to the kit. Might be a couple of weeks til I'm up and shooting with it but am looking forward to capturing some shift-stitched panoramas in the Karijini gorges.
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Carpe lucem
Ken R
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2013, 01:24:27 PM »
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Hi, congrats on the new back. I have the IQ160 and I was told the image quality of the P65+ is similar. I use it mostly on the Arca Rm3Di with the Rodenstock 40mm HR lens and it is just stunning. (have the 70mm HR and it is superb also). I also have a Hasselblad H1 w/ 80mm lens for when I need to use the back in an SLR. The lens is very very good but the rodenstocks are just plain better overall. They are extremely crisp and of course you can shift/rise/fall and even tilt them a LOT. The 60MP sensor seems to love f8 and maybe f11. After that diffraction starts to show. At f22 it is significant. The images are still sharp but when compared to the ones shot at f8 you can clearly see the loss in sharpness.
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Rob Whitehead
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2013, 01:19:52 PM »
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Well, I've actually tried the lenses now, at least a little bit.

Of the wides, I've shot most with the Phase One 45mm. Pretty happy with the quality, I stitched for the the first time tonight - a three photo stitch of a local island at sunset using the RRS pano head came together really well in PTGUI (after lens corrections in LR).

As for the 28mm, pretty unimpressed with the lateral parts of the image on my first few shots - very smeared detail - but I've only taken a couple of shots so far so I'm going to see what I can do with this.

The 35mm hasn't really had a run yet.

The 80mm LS is solid, but a boring focal length. I used it for a very basic editorial shoot last weekend because it was reasonably fast and not a bad length for environmental portraits. Arguably something in the shots that you don't get with 35mm, but that could just be me trying to justify my 30K+ purchase! Is it better than the 85mm 1.2L on my Canon? Well, it's slower - and the P65 isn't quite in 5DMk3 territory for low light. Early days.

I used the 75-150mm a bit when I first got the system running last week, seemed nice and sharp but haven't tried it much in the last few days.

I have the Mamiya non-D version of the 150mm prime, haven't really shot with it yet.

Tried some sunset shots of bulk carriers down at the harbour with the 120mm Macro (the non-D, manula focus version). Pretty unimpressed so far, the 75-150mm was sharper but this could just be user error (manual focus).

The suprise so far is the Mamiya 210mm prime. Although it's not a fancy D lens, it seems nice and sharp. Pretty happy with the performance there, as good as lenses that cost me 10x its price.

That's the first thoughts on the kit. I haven't really answered my own question about wides yet as I need to do a bit more testing and shooting.

I've done a bit of fairly serious landscape shooting in the past couple of days but not of particularly attractive locations (my excuse for not getting 'the shot' yet).

The Cambo Wide RS is waiting for me at the airport so I should be shooting with that by tomorrow (unless I've forgotten some critical part). Will be interesting to see how the Rodie 45mm compares with the Phase 45mm. I must say I'm really looking forward to pointing a tech camera at some beautiful landscapes.

So Friday I'm off to the not-very-often photographed Millstream-Chichester National Park in the Pilbara (in the northwest bit of Oz). Unfortuantely, won't be able to use my 'the landscape was ugly' excuse there. Plan is to shoot sunrise on Saturday morning with the Cambo after sleeping out at a spot in the Chichester ranges I've used a few times before ('Panorama Camp').

One thing I did notice tonight when using the Phase 45mm is that there was some ugly green flare when shooting directly into the sun. Anyone know how the Rodenstocks perform when used for these sort of shots?
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Carpe lucem
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2013, 12:21:02 PM »
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Tried some sunset shots of bulk carriers down at the harbour with the 120mm Macro (the non-D, manula focus version).
Since the 120mm Macro is optimized for... well, macro shots at close distance, the lack of sharpness you observed doesn't really come as a surprise. For shots at +/- infinity, the 150mm lenses are clearly better.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2013, 03:16:52 PM »
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The mamiya 210 is a sleeper for sure.  Contrast is a bit flat but as you pointed out amazing sharp. 

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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Blog> http://paulcaldwellphotography.com
HarperPhotos
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2013, 03:46:27 PM »
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Hello,

Keh are selling the Mamiya 645 AF 210mm at a very good price compared to some of the asking prices on EBay.

http://www.keh.com/camera/Mamiya-645-Autofocus-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-AM06999037749N?r=FE#

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
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Auckland, New Zealand
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