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Question: Is mirror lockup something you routine use?
Always and for all shots - 21 (24.7%)
Long exposure and macros with tripod - 28 (32.9%)
Once in a while - 22 (25.9%)
Never - 5 (5.9%)
Other (explain) - 9 (10.6%)
Total Voters: 85

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Author Topic: Do you use mirror lockup?  (Read 12719 times)
Tony Jay
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2013, 03:41:53 PM »
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Absolutely no confusion from my side.
The OP's camera will allow Live view or MLU in isolation.
Live view is the way to go - you have highlighted a couple of additional compelling reasons to use it.
I now refer back to my first post.

Tony Jay
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Misirlou
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2013, 04:37:45 PM »
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All in all LV is a very important feature for landscape photographers. Oh! Did I mention that you invoke it by pushing a button on the back of the camera. The esteemed Michael R used to beg for an MLU button; this is much better.

Not completely, at least not for me. LV is great for all the things you mention. But, it burns battery power, and leaving it on for extended periods will heat up the sensor, adding shadow noise. And unless you use a remote shutter release or trigger the shutter via the timer, pushing the shutter button will cause some small amount of camera shake, regardless of where the mirror might be. Perhaps you don't often shoot in the desert, or do long sequences of exposures. I've learned the hard way to be judicious about LV in those circumstances.

So, I still need MLU quite a lot, and it's annoying not to have a dedicated control. My first Canon film camera, which I bought in 1981, had a nice mechanical MLU switch. You kind of get used to a thing like that over a couple of decades. Not having one on a DSLR, where the simplest of buttons could trigger the function, is pretty exasperating.

There was an article in Photo Techniques in the late '90s where someone tested several different kinds of cameras at a whole range of shutter speeds. It turned out that MLU made a big difference up to surprisingly fast shutter openings for some camera/lens combos. It wasn't even very predictable; some inexpensive cameras had mirrors that induced a small amount of vibration, while a few expensive pro models were terrible. I remember my Hasselblads being pretty bad, which is one of the reasons I tended to use Rolleis in the field instead.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2013, 10:04:22 PM »
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Agree about the sensor heating issue.
As for the other - keep some spare batteries around.

Tony Jay
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Mike D. B.
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2013, 12:21:41 AM »
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When the camera is mounted on a tripod, I always use MLU.
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G*
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2013, 09:56:45 AM »
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Nikon D800E, handheld, viewfinder:
If my subject isnt moving too fast, I use the "Mup" function on the drive-dial.
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joneil
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 09:36:44 AM »
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  For specific situation - yes.  for example, in long exposure astro-photography, especially through a telescope at high  or higher powers, mirror lock up, film or digital, is pretty much a defacto standard.   Yes you do burn up the batteries, which is why many guys in these situations will use external power supply.  Dedicated CCD astro cameras used to always come with peltier cooling too, because as those CCDs ( and now CMOS chips) go for long exposure, the heat causes a lot of noise other wise.

   But outside of specific situations like that, I don't know.  I personally think the most common use of mirror lock up today is not the mirror lock up itself, but simply the fact there are situations where people like to use live view, and you get mirror lock up by default in those cases.
 
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 12:32:17 PM »
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Not completely, at least not for me. LV is great for all the things you mention. But, it burns battery power, and leaving it on for extended periods will heat up the sensor, adding shadow noise.

Most using LiveView in place of MLU aren't leaving it on for extended period of time.  Using LiveView is a natural for most landscape work because it is the best way to focus ... if so you already have it on.  No need to disable it, then use MLU.  As far as battery, for a landscape shooter it's doubtful this will have any affect.  I shoot with a friend who has a Canon 5D Mark 3, always uses LiveView and battery is never an issue for him

As far as sensor heating up, theoretically true, but you really do not  leave it on for an extended period of time. 30 seconds here, 20 seconds there. If you are only using it as a replacement for mirror lock up we're talking only 4 or 5 seconds, which is pretty insignificant for both noise and battery power.  I tested noise with a 5D Mark 2, shooting several blank frames with a lens cap on.  To test the sensor I turned LV on for 1 minute, took a shot, repeated immediately for a total of 5 minutes.  Processing these with a few exaggerated settings in LR shows the resulting noise, and there really wasn't any difference (more noise) in any of the LV shots. 

Quote
And unless you use a remote shutter release or trigger the shutter via the timer, pushing the shutter button will cause some small amount of camera shake, regardless of where the mirror might be.
true, but this is true and the same for either LV or MLU, and I don't think anyone suggested using LV negates the requirement to use a remote releae of some kind or self timer.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned (with Canon cameras, I've never tested this with a Nikon) is LV has a slight advantage in reducing possible camera movement.  The 1st curtain in Canon's cameras is now electronic ... there is only a second curtain.  The second curtain covers the sensor at all times other than during LV or an exposure.  If you take a shot with MLU, that curtain remains in place and when the exposure starts must be moved out of the way.  If the camera is in LV, the curtain is already open.  This means the only possible vibration of the shutter can happen as the exposure ends.

Is this significant?  Hard to say, but if looking for the absolute best practice to prevent has much possible vibration, this is the way to go.  considering the sensels on the sensor are smaller than a red blood cell it doesn't take much of a vibration to spread light from the intended sensor onto a neighboring sensel.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 05:14:05 PM »
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  ... personally think the most common use of mirror lock up today is not the mirror lock up itself, but simply the fact there are situations where people like to use live view, and you get mirror lock up by default in those cases.
Perhaps for some..
Most using LiveView in place of MLU aren't leaving it on for extended period of time.  Using LiveView is a natural for most landscape work because it is the best way to focus ... if so you already have it on.  No need to disable it, then use MLU.  As far as battery, for a landscape shooter it's doubtful this will have any affect.  I shoot with a friend who has a Canon 5D Mark 3, always uses LiveView and battery is never an issue for him

As far as sensor heating up, theoretically true, but you really do not  leave it on for an extended period of time. 30 seconds here, 20 seconds there. If you are only using it as a replacement for mirror lock up we're talking only 4 or 5 seconds, which is pretty insignificant for both noise and battery power.  I tested noise with a 5D Mark 2, shooting several blank frames with a lens cap on.  To test the sensor I turned LV on for 1 minute, took a shot, repeated immediately for a total of 5 minutes.  Processing these with a few exaggerated settings in LR shows the resulting noise, and there really wasn't any difference (more noise) in any of the LV shots. 
true, but this is true and the same for either LV or MLU, and I don't think anyone suggested using LV negates the requirement to use a remote releae of some kind or self timer.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned (with Canon cameras, I've never tested this with a Nikon) is LV has a slight advantage in reducing possible camera movement.  The 1st curtain in Canon's cameras is now electronic ... there is only a second curtain.  The second curtain covers the sensor at all times other than during LV or an exposure.  If you take a shot with MLU, that curtain remains in place and when the exposure starts must be moved out of the way.  If the camera is in LV, the curtain is already open.  This means the only possible vibration of the shutter can happen as the exposure ends.

Is this significant?  Hard to say, but if looking for the absolute best practice to prevent has much possible vibration, this is the way to go.  considering the sensels on the sensor are smaller than a red blood cell it doesn't take much of a vibration to spread light from the intended sensor onto a neighboring sensel.
This is a good summary of the practical aspects of using Live View.
One can either use Live View without really groking the benefits or one can use Live View and lever the advantages for the best possible image quality (IQ).
Certainly, using a Canon 5D III in Live View, one gets much more than an alternative MLU function. On a tripod I can fine-tune focusing, make sure that the camera is level, and check my exposure with a real-time histogram.
If one's shooting style is more of a run-and-gun type approach Live View may not be that helpful but nonetheless I have used the levelling and exposure functions handheld.
I do shoot a lot without a tripod but prefer to shoot on a tripod when possible and when I do I always use Live View and a remote release to maximise IQ.

Tony Jay
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Fine_Art
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 08:36:09 PM »
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For me, less about the subject being static and more about the camera being static. Whenever the camera is static, then I use MLU.

You are right, that is a more precise statement.
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GeekMark
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« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2013, 06:43:26 AM »
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I agree with the post above. But it really depends on the type of camera and the shooting situation. I use MLU regularly, and I'd say it's definitely worth the extra effort!
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NancyP
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« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2013, 02:08:53 PM »
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Yes, I use MLU and a wired remote when the camera is on the tripod. Since my camera is a Canon, that means using Live View, which does eat batteries.

The "faint fuzzies" astrophotographers using very long exposures for very few photons are the ones who go for the external Peltier cooler modifications to the camera body. They are trying to capture objects that are very close to the sensor-noise ratio. If you have an easier target, computation alone on many captures will separate your target from noise.
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K.C.
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« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2013, 08:07:50 PM »
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I've been debating about mirror lockup for some time now. I understand its benefits to reduce vibrations, but is it worth the extra trouble?

My shoes will stay on without tying the laces but I still find it's worth the trouble.  Roll Eyes
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Hans van Driest
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« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2013, 02:09:36 AM »
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Do you deactive the Steady Shot function? ;-)

usually not. most of the time it does not activate when on a tripod. and when it does activate, this can be heard, so you know something went wrong.
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Rand47
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« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2013, 07:48:45 AM »
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If the camera is on a tripod? Always, I can't really think of any reason not to

+1 and always w/ wireless remote.

Rand
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xpatUSA
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 08:23:53 PM »
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For macro shots, even on a tripod, with a Sigma SD9 which has a really clunky mirror action.

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markmullen
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Re:
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2013, 05:40:27 PM »
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Every shot, either through live view on the 5d3 or MLU on the 645 AFDii, that's got a big old mirror which flips up with a great big slap. All my shots are off a tripod so it's no big issue.
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mrazster
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« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2013, 04:33:19 AM »
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Im mostly a landscape fotografer, but every now and then I do some wildlife and portraiture.
When ever its suited and applyable I use mirrorlockup, tripod and remotswitch !
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Deardorff
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« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2013, 10:01:53 PM »
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Yes, and I really, REALLY miss the simple mirror lock up as I have on the F3 Nikons. That is simple. This electronic wonderbox has me going into menus, pushing buttons and screwing around - doing most anything it seems to take my mind off the image I am trying to make.


Then, some of the cameras I have tried don't let you sit there with the cable release at the ready for a few minutes waiting for the subject to move into perfect position for a frame/image. They shut off after a bit. Or, some will only put the mirror up for a short time and then take the image rather than letting you lock the mirror up and wait a few minutes for the subject to come where things are just right.

Why isn't it as simple as with the old F3's since all the digital stuff is supposed to be so wonderful? The damn engineers and computer jokers don't seem to understand photography and using cameras in the field.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2013, 01:46:01 PM »
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Hi,

Me, about the same, but I mostly use self timer.

Best regards
Erik


Im mostly a landscape fotografer, but every now and then I do some wildlife and portraiture.
When ever its suited and applyable I use mirrorlockup, tripod and remotswitch !
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robdickinson
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2013, 03:31:08 PM »
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If you want MLU on the 7D without live view then create a C1/2/3 with it enabled in your favourite shooting mode.
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