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Author Topic: New monitor woes NEC PA241W  (Read 2357 times)
Evanford
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« on: August 23, 2013, 06:02:51 PM »
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I've got a weird problem with a brand new NEC multisync PA241W wide gamut display. First a little back story.   I bought it because my MacBook Pro has problems communicating with my 4 year old NEC Multisync 2490wuxi2.  I am only able to get the Mac (running OS 10.7.5) to work with Spectraview about 25% of he time on the 2490  The rest of the time it craps out in the middle of calibration.  It would only communicate with the Mac after buying Apple's expensive dual link DVI adapter cable but that is another story.  Prior to getting the Mac Book I have been using Windows XP and Windows 7 machines happily with my NEC 2490.  I decided to bite the bullet and get the PA 241W wide gamut display so that I could use both Mac and Windows lap tops.  It arrived today.  Unfortunately after calibrating with Spectraview version 1.1.14 and the same I1 Display Pro Sensor I always use I am left with disappointment.   

Now to my question.....  The Spectraview calibration has a slight, ever so subtle green cast.  It is quite noticeable when viewing both monitors side by side.  It's hardly noticeable when viewing each monitor individually.  When I compare the same image on each monitor to prints I see a much closer match on my old monitor.   It's not even close.  Then I discovered something else weird. When I change the color selection mode from 'Spectraview' to 'FULL' on the new PA241,  colors snap into place and the two monitors are pretty much identical.   I tried recalibrating using different preference settings in Spectraview.  I even tried using a Munki instead of my i1 Display Pro which made things worse.  No matter what I do I can't seem to get a good looking screen using Spectraview calibration.  Anyone have any thoughts on this issue?  Do I need to let the new monitor get some hours under its belt before calibrating?  Right now it only has 4 hours usage.   If I can't get it working by weekend's end I will have to return it. 

Thanks,

Evan     
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howardm
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 07:38:02 AM »
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I let my PA241 burn-in for about 100hr before attempting to critically calibrate it.  IMO, there is definitely
a needed burn-in requirement.  YMMV
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JRSmit
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 08:32:04 AM »
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Does your laptop support independent calibration a d profiling of 2 attached monitors?
The pa241 bas hardware profiling. Do not know ic the 2490 also is hardware profiled.
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Evanford
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2013, 10:13:12 AM »
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Thanks for the replies.  Both of my lap tops (Windows 7/MacBookPro)  seem to support independent profiles for the lap top screen and externally connected monitor. I use I1Profiler to profile both laptop screens with the same I1 Display Pro puck.   The 2490 also supports hardware calibration. It is a slightly older model, in addition to being non-wide gamut, compared to the PA241.   I have been using Spectraview II with it for years.  All monitors are targeted to D6500. 

What gets me is when I switch the new monitor to Full Color Preset Mode (also D6500) I get a dead on color match to the 2490.   That of course defeats the purpose of using Spectraview.  I think if I play with the Spectraview White Point target settings to reduce green a few notches I can get it to match better.  I will take Howard's advice and let the monitor burn in for the weekend before fiddling with this.  I have to admit I have never adjusted White Point target settings before. I have always used D6500 for my target settings and have been mostly happy.   
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Czornyj
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 11:20:25 AM »
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Try to turn on "Metamerism correction" for Spectraview II preset in Multiprofiler
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Marcin Kałuża
Evanford
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2013, 11:10:20 AM »
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Czornyj,

You should change you LL name to Clint Eastwood because you just made my day!  I made the change you suggested and presto.   Now I am getting a much closer match.  Infact, one could argue I am getting a better screen-to-print match with the new PA241 than with the old 2490.  The older monitor looks slightly magenta-ish now.   Thank you so much.  You have saved me a lot of time and frustration. 

I am also amazed at the superiority of the PA241W over my older monitor.  The screen is very uniform with no noticeable back-light bleed.  Images seem to pop off the screen while looking quite natural.  Text on web pages and documents appear crisp and in perfect focus.  Spectraview now works flawlessly on both my Mac Book Pro and Windows 7 laptops.   The calibration seems to be quicker too.  I am cautiously optimistic I will be very happy with this monitor.  The only caveat is my own brain which is constantly seeking out imperfections even if they aren't really there.

-- Evan   
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jwlimages
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2013, 12:21:57 PM »
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Try to turn on "Metamerism correction" for Spectraview II preset in Multiprofiler

- can you elaborate a bit? Are you saying to run Multiprofiler first, turn on "Metamerism correction", then run Spectraview II & calibrate 'on top of' that setting?

(I'm also firing up a brand-new PA241W, which seems a touch green. But I'm confused because I thought you use either Multiprofiler without a hardware calibrator or Spectraview with, say the NEC Spectrasensor, but not both?)

Thanks,

John
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Czornyj
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 01:07:08 PM »
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Run Spectraview II, calibrate the monitor, and then run Multiprofiler - a [Spectraview II] preset will be present, with "Metamerism correction" option that is switched off by default. The trick is to enable this option in Multiprofiler after calibration.
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Marcin Kałuża
jwlimages
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 09:21:17 PM »
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Run Spectraview II, calibrate the monitor, and then run Multiprofiler...

- Thank you! Will check it out.

John
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Evanford
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 08:33:10 AM »
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The effect is subtle, but just enough to get my brain into thinking there is a good enough match.  Now that I am satisfied I have shut down the old 2490.   I will have to make a determination if I want to leave that option turned on in multiprofiler even though I am no longer comparing my screen to a non-wide gamut display.  It wouldn't surprise me if after using the new monitor for a week or so,  I might start preferring that option turned off.  The brain gets easily fooled.         
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WombatHorror
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 08:46:53 PM »
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I've got a weird problem with a brand new NEC multisync PA241W wide gamut display. First a little back story.   I bought it because my MacBook Pro has problems communicating with my 4 year old NEC Multisync 2490wuxi2.  I am only able to get the Mac (running OS 10.7.5) to work with Spectraview about 25% of he time on the 2490  The rest of the time it craps out in the middle of calibration.  It would only communicate with the Mac after buying Apple's expensive dual link DVI adapter cable but that is another story.  Prior to getting the Mac Book I have been using Windows XP and Windows 7 machines happily with my NEC 2490.  I decided to bite the bullet and get the PA 241W wide gamut display so that I could use both Mac and Windows lap tops.  It arrived today.  Unfortunately after calibrating with Spectraview version 1.1.14 and the same I1 Display Pro Sensor I always use I am left with disappointment.   

Now to my question.....  The Spectraview calibration has a slight, ever so subtle green cast.  It is quite noticeable when viewing both monitors side by side.  It's hardly noticeable when viewing each monitor individually.  When I compare the same image on each monitor to prints I see a much closer match on my old monitor.   It's not even close.  Then I discovered something else weird. When I change the color selection mode from 'Spectraview' to 'FULL' on the new PA241,  colors snap into place and the two monitors are pretty much identical.   I tried recalibrating using different preference settings in Spectraview.  I even tried using a Munki instead of my i1 Display Pro which made things worse.  No matter what I do I can't seem to get a good looking screen using Spectraview calibration.  Anyone have any thoughts on this issue?  Do I need to let the new monitor get some hours under its belt before calibrating?  Right now it only has 4 hours usage.   If I can't get it working by weekend's end I will have to return it. 

Thanks,

Evan     

One thing is your old monitor was standard gamut. There isn't a way with the type of color management systems we have that can make a stadard gamut display look the same as a wide gamut due to metamerism and the difference between the two will vary from person to person. It depends upon how the spectral spikes interact with your eyes. My PA241W doesn't look like any of my calibrated standard gamut monitors. OTOH, to my eyes, it actually looks closer to real world. Like if I put up a digital version of one of those color swatch charts and then view the real chart under same lighting as monitor was set to the real life chart looks closer to me to the PA241W than to any sRGB chart (even for sRGB in gamut swatches) and gray tones. Although in neither case does it quite match.

Wide gamut monitors sometimes can appear a trace greener in WB to eyes than standard gamut monitors. You'd need a color management system based upon very fine grained full spectrum responses. No consumer color management system works that way, they are all simple tristim type.
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WombatHorror
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 08:51:03 PM »
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Speaking of metamerism correction which I now see was mentioned later in the thread, I've ended up leaving it off since while it makes white tones look more like more sRGB monitors and makes a few other colors closer it makes just as many other colors even farther off but more to the point I find it makes my digital color chart become a less accurate match compared to a physical chart viewed under D65 conditions. If you do lots of side by side work with sRGB monitors it might be best to leave it on though I guess, since the important WB tone looks a bit closer.

I wonder what the new LED backlits will be like. I hear they have a much different spectral profile than the CCFL wide gamut monitors.
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