Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: What happened to Phase One?  (Read 3137 times)
ahbriggs
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


« on: August 26, 2013, 05:57:01 AM »
ReplyReply

It's been awhile since I've looked at investing in a medium format camera and it appears there has been a shift in production since I last showed interest. I've looked across numerous rental sites and online retailers such as Adorama and B&H. I just can't find Phase One camera bodies anywhere on the market! I don't recall anything being mentioned about it via blogs and general media. i feel like I've missed out on something. However, Phase One digital backs still seem to be market leader. I suppose Hassleblad are the only option for a quality body?
Logged
Pics2
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 179


« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 06:43:48 AM »
ReplyReply

http://www.phaseone.com/en/FooterMenu/Partner-Locator
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 2896


WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 08:40:28 AM »
ReplyReply

Nothing happened. The Phase One brand has never been sold through B+H. Instead you can find more info, arrange in-person or rental-towards-purchase evaluations, and purchase the Phase One DF+ body at a value added Phase One partner.

I consider all four major body choices to be "high quality" - but your preference will obviously depend on which features you need/want and your personal shooting style/preferences.

  • The Hassy 500 series still provides a very viable platform (albeit with no AF, limited "features", and declining-but-likely-very-long-tailed availability)
  • The Hassy H1/H2/H4X provides 1/800th flash sync, AF, a large variety of features, and are still available new (in the case of the H4X) and still being actively serviced (H1/H2/H4X)
  • The Phase One DF/DF+ provide 1/1600th flash sync (with recent backs), AF, modest feature set, the ability to use focal plane lenses in addition to LS lenses, and are very price-competitive when bundled with a purchase of a back
  • The Contax is out of production many years but many Contax owners are passionate about the system (though perhaps it's self-selection bias - anyone luke warm is long-gone from the platform). I personally like it's very tactile feel.

There are a dozen other important points to be made where each system has advantages, such as the availability of vertical grips for Contax and DF/DF+ and the option to rotate the back to vertical on the Hassy 500, but no vertical option for the Hassy H (other than holding it hand-on-top which some consider unergonomic for lengthy shoots). Or the availability of a waist-level-viewfinder on the H, Contax, and 500, but not on the Mamiya (other than a periscope viewer which is useful for some WLF applications, but certainly not a replacement). Many of these have been hashed and rehashed on the forums.

Best to start off looking at feature sets and narrow down which bodies have what you are looking for, and then get your hands on each of the ones that seem likely candidates.

At the end of the day the way it feels in your hand and how closely the design matches your mindset is often even more important than the feature set.

If you'd like we can show you each option in our Remote Demo Center. It's not a replacement for getting hands on, but it's a good place to start.

Edit: Heck I even forgot about the RZ Pro IID (same mount as the Phase One DF/DF+ so a back can be shared between them) which has it's own set of magic and annoyances.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 08:43:35 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1843


« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 09:06:59 AM »
ReplyReply

One more, the Rollei Hy6/AFi.

Nothing happened. The Phase One brand has never been sold through B+H. Instead you can find more info, arrange in-person or rental-towards-purchase evaluations, and purchase the Phase One DF+ body at a value added Phase One partner.

I consider all four major body choices to be "high quality" - but your preference will obviously depend on which features you need/want and your personal shooting style/preferences.

  • The Hassy 500 series still provides a very viable platform (albeit with no AF, limited "features", and declining-but-likely-very-long-tailed availability)
  • The Hassy H1/H2/H4X provides 1/800th flash sync, AF, a large variety of features, and are still available new (in the case of the H4X) and still being actively serviced (H1/H2/H4X)
  • The Phase One DF/DF+ provide 1/1600th flash sync (with recent backs), AF, modest feature set, the ability to use focal plane lenses in addition to LS lenses, and are very price-competitive when bundled with a purchase of a back
  • The Contax is out of production many years but many Contax owners are passionate about the system (though perhaps it's self-selection bias - anyone luke warm is long-gone from the platform). I personally like it's very tactile feel.

There are a dozen other important points to be made where each system has advantages, such as the availability of vertical grips for Contax and DF/DF+ and the option to rotate the back to vertical on the Hassy 500, but no vertical option for the Hassy H (other than holding it hand-on-top which some consider unergonomic for lengthy shoots). Or the availability of a waist-level-viewfinder on the H, Contax, and 500, but not on the Mamiya (other than a periscope viewer which is useful for some WLF applications, but certainly not a replacement). Many of these have been hashed and rehashed on the forums.

Best to start off looking at feature sets and narrow down which bodies have what you are looking for, and then get your hands on each of the ones that seem likely candidates.

At the end of the day the way it feels in your hand and how closely the design matches your mindset is often even more important than the feature set.

If you'd like we can show you each option in our Remote Demo Center. It's not a replacement for getting hands on, but it's a good place to start.

Edit: Heck I even forgot about the RZ Pro IID (same mount as the Phase One DF/DF+ so a back can be shared between them) which has it's own set of magic and annoyances.
Logged
Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 2896


WWW
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 12:54:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Yes, absolutely. No disrespect for the AFI/Hy6 intended.

It's got it's own wonderful attributes and it's own makes-you-wonder.

For Team Phase One products the Credo and Aptus II 10 and 12 models are available in mounts for that platform.

Given that it's a niche, rather than a mass-consumer-product-category there really is an large variety of options available and Team Phase One supports nearly all of them (exceptions only for bodies where the manufacturer has added firmware to purposefully lock out third party backs).

And we're not even including the tech cameras here (since the OP was presumably asking about SLR models only). With Cambo, Arca, Alpa, Horseman, Silvestri, Sinar and more producing several models each. Or view cameras legacy or modern.

Or Holga/Pinhole/DIY models like the Zombie Mamiya-7-modified-for-digital-back that comes up on eBay every once in a while.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 12:57:59 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 8031


WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 01:08:22 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

One point about the 6x6 bodies, all MF backs are 645 or smaller. Tha makes wide angles on 6x6 systems very scarce. My Distagon 40 for Hasselblad V is essentially a 28 mm lens in 135 terms. If you need WA go 645 or technical camera.

Best regards
Erik

One more, the Rollei Hy6/AFi.

Logged

Steve Hendrix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 01:15:25 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

One point about the 6x6 bodies, all MF backs are 645 or smaller. Tha makes wide angles on 6x6 systems very scarce. My Distagon 40 for Hasselblad V is essentially a 28 mm lens in 135 terms. If you need WA go 645 or technical camera.

Best regards
Erik


40mm lens on 6x6 body is equivalent to 22mm (for 35mm format). If using a full frame digital back it is 25mm. The point about technical cameras for wide angles is noteworthy, however, as even if you can cover the focal length you desire with a medium format lens, it won't match the quality of the wides the tech camera systems offer.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged

Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 8031


WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 01:34:58 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

My back is a P45+ and is said to have a crop factor of 1.1, which makes it close to 28 mm. Hasselblad has a 28 mm lens, for instance, even if that lens may not cover the full 645 format.

On the other hand, you can use a 23 mm Rodenstock on the P45+ or even IQ 180. A Canon TS 17/4 supposedly will cover the P45+ sensor with some margin.

I have seen some images from thr HT 23 and the TS 17/4, the HR 23 was much better at medium apertures but at f/16 it was close...


Best regards
Erik

40mm lens on 6x6 body is equivalent to 22mm (for 35mm format). If using a full frame digital back it is 25mm. The point about technical cameras for wide angles is noteworthy, however, as even if you can cover the focal length you desire with a medium format lens, it won't match the quality of the wides the tech camera systems offer.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged

Doug Peterson
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 2896


WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 01:45:59 PM »
ReplyReply

If the various crops start to get confusing I suggest our Focal Length Visualizer which lets you SEE what each lens/body or lens/film combination looks like.

http://www.digitaltransitions.com/page/tech-camera-visualizers

It's especially useful when comparing very different aspect ratios. a 6x6 film lens doesn't have "one" equivalent when used with a rectangular sensor. It has a range of equivalents depending on whether you're matching width, height, or diagonal. See below screen grabs...

Diagonal


Horizontal


Vertical
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 01:58:23 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Steve Hendrix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


WWW
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 04:52:02 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

My back is a P45+ and is said to have a crop factor of 1.1, which makes it close to 28 mm. Hasselblad has a 28 mm lens, for instance, even if that lens may not cover the full 645 format.

On the other hand, you can use a 23 mm Rodenstock on the P45+ or even IQ 180. A Canon TS 17/4 supposedly will cover the P45+ sensor with some margin.

I have seen some images from thr HT 23 and the TS 17/4, the HR 23 was much better at medium apertures but at f/16 it was close...


Best regards
Erik



Hi Erik -

When describing focal length equivalents with digital backs, I don't use the stated crop factor. As Doug notes, as an example, a P45+ on a Hasselblad is combining 2 different formats. It is a given that the P45+ is not a square format, so when stating wide angle equivalents, my focus is on the long edge of the sensor, which correlates to a 25mm equivalent. If you used an IQ180 on a Hasselblad, it would essentially be full frame (or really really close to it) on the long end.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged

Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
Lacunapratum
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 178


« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 05:15:36 PM »
ReplyReply

I'd seriously consider getting into the Rolleiflex system.  Eric Hiss in San Francisco, whom some of you may know from the forum, is in the process of starting a DHW/Rolleiflex dealership here in the States!  http://rolleiflex.us/  I am not sure whether this is official as of yet, but just thought I'd get the word out there.  Eric is a photography and Rollei enthusiast and I'd trust him 110%.  Disclaimer - no personal relationship or interest.  Just happy he is doing it!
Logged
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1843


« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 08:43:32 PM »
ReplyReply

He is a level headed and reasonable guy.

I'd seriously consider getting into the Rolleiflex system.  Eric Hiss in San Francisco, whom some of you may know from the forum, is in the process of starting a DHW/Rolleiflex dealership here in the States!  http://rolleiflex.us/  I am not sure whether this is official as of yet, but just thought I'd get the word out there.  Eric is a photography and Rollei enthusiast and I'd trust him 110%.  Disclaimer - no personal relationship or interest.  Just happy he is doing it!
Logged
leeonmaui
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 222


« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 10:36:15 PM »
ReplyReply

Aloha,

Oh the other one; Pentax 645D

You're the African wildlife photographer?

Try this;
Complete, not a back, weather sealed, rain, dust, mud, dust; who cares keep shooting!
cold hot, don't care; I've worked with mine at -10 to 105 no problem,
awesome battery life, like pretty much all day, if you leave the led screen alone.
unrivaled lens selection at pretty attractive prices. Try a 400mm 5.6 telephoto prime for $1500, real sharp and great color, there's an 2x converter but you lose AF
the 35mm has been tested better than the Hasselblad stopped down, its really nice...
there is a 600mm but its like a monster!

Pretty fast available shutter speeds, super easy controls, real nice features.
It might prove a bit more robust than some of the other systems as well.

not bad in terms of portability;
i fit body, 35mm,75mm 120mm macro, 80-160mm zoom 400mm telephoto, sidekick, grads filters extra batteries (7) etc etc all in a lowpro H2O bag with tripod, its about 30 lbs.

Real nice system, worth a look....
Rumors is they will release a 645D II sometime soon...   

Africa is my next international destination can't wait!
you have some really nice shots, 
 
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 8031


WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 11:07:29 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

The main point I wanted to make is that there are less options for wide angles on 6x6 systems than on 645. Hasselblad V ends at 40 mm (except the 38 Biogon). Potential buyers should keep that in mind. My plan is to get a technical camera in due time.

I am aware of format differences.

On the practical side, I was shooting my Hasselblad and P45+ combo in the Dolomites. At times I used stitching to expand the field of view of my lenses.

Best regards
Erik



Hi Erik -

When describing focal length equivalents with digital backs, I don't use the stated crop factor. As Doug notes, as an example, a P45+ on a Hasselblad is combining 2 different formats. It is a given that the P45+ is not a square format, so when stating wide angle equivalents, my focus is on the long edge of the sensor, which correlates to a 25mm equivalent. If you used an IQ180 on a Hasselblad, it would essentially be full frame (or really really close to it) on the long end.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged

ondebanks
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 860



« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 11:33:20 AM »
ReplyReply


Oh the other one; Pentax 645D
...
unrivaled lens selection ...

I really don't want to get into one of those "I justify my camera choice by dissing your camera" type of arguments, but I can't let "unrivaled" pass as a statement of fact - even when one includes Pentax 67 lenses with the automatic-aperture adapter.

The 645D has a huge lens range, but it is nevertheless missing stuff that matters to people like me, lenses which are provided in the Mamiya 645 stable - and that is precisely why the 645D is not on my wishlist, despite being a superior body with a superior sensor:

- fisheye
- fast (<= f/2) normal
- f2.8 telephotos [110/2.8, 150/2.8, 200/2.8 APO, 300/2.8 APO...only 150/2.8 for the P645 and 150/2.8 (again) + 165/2.8 for the P67]
These first three are my "deal killers". Others to consider are:
- shift wideangle [the P67's 75mm is rather long, compared to Mamiya's 50mm]
- tilt/shift bellows
- variable soft focus lens [if that takes your fancy]
- compact mirror long-tele

Against this, the areas where the P645 trumps Mamiya are
- zooms: more wideangle 33-55mm and longer tele 150-300mm.
- 1.4x TC
- widest rectilinear lens (24mm vs 28mm) [but I get wider again with my 24mm fisheye, which can be de-fished]
- 400mm and 600mm lens choices [but the Mamiya APOs cover these focal lengths too, via the 2x TC]

Seeing as the Mamiya can also use the P67 lenses, albeit with manual aperture control, I don't see enough evidence to declare the Pentax's lens range "unrivalled". You could throw all the other systems into the mix too, from Hasselblad V to Leica S, and I don't think any medium format manufacturer could be declared an unrivalled winner...there will always be something in one line that the others lack, and so it all depends on what the user needs. 

As I've said before, if M645 lenses could reach infinity focus on a Pentax 645D body, I'd be all over it! But the flange focal distance differences are the wrong way round.

Rumors is they will release a 645D II sometime soon...   

Hope so - I really look forward to seeing what it's capable of.

Ray
Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2961



WWW
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 12:39:12 PM »
ReplyReply

You're the African wildlife photographer?


Unless Andy's new hobby is trolling  Grin , I don't think the OP was Andy Biggs (the african wildlife photographer) ... he has a different handle here and is very familiar with Phase One.  He shoots with one sometimes and has led PODAS workshops for them.
Logged

bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1207


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2013, 01:21:57 PM »
ReplyReply

I think medium format is a niche, though well worth it if you buy in right.

I also think the Pentax 645D had the opportunity to really make a name in the professional market if they had a larger buffer and would tether.  

Which none of this made sense, considering Pentax needed to really sell cameras.

That's it, that's all they needed because I believe for medium format to gain territory, it has to get closer to the price of a professional Canon or Nikon, under 10 grand, probably 7 to 8 grand, tops.

Also Pentax needs to review their new lens prices.  I know lenses are expensive, but it's a tough sell to push $5,000 wide angles in todays market that presumes a 5d3 is the standard professional camera.

We've seen a resurgence in cameras of late, from 4/3, aps c to full frame and most are very capable, almost indistingusable from much higher end cameras if properly produced in post production.

With professionals there is a huge buzz and buy in of the Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus and Sony smaller cameras and not all are used for just walking around and taking snaps.

For a high end player to flourish, price has become a consideration, especially for cameras that are for single purpose stills.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 01:39:41 PM by bcooter » Logged

Ken R
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 553


WWW
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2013, 02:26:29 PM »
ReplyReply

The Pentax 645D is an awesome camera. I had one and loved it. It has one huge issue. Service. When everything is all and well then this in a non issue. If the camera requires service then it is a nightmare based on all the stories I have read. (at least in the US). from what I could gather Pentax does not have factory service for the 645D in the US. That means the camera has to go to Japan. Some people have been without the camera for months without knowing the status of the repair. That is completely unacceptable in a $10,000 body. If it were not for that I might have kept the camera. The lenses are ok some are really good but not all are good enough and the new 25mm and 90mm are just way overpriced. All this is a shame since the 645D is just an awesome DSLR.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 02:28:21 PM by Ken R » Logged
SeanBK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 511


« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2013, 04:34:21 PM »
ReplyReply

ahbriggs,
   Since u were inquiring @ availability of quality body with your original post. And it was replied among the list upto & including H4X by Hasselblad (as it can use Phase backs). Have u looked into other Hasselblads like the current one is H5D > ISO 100 to 1600. Shutter 1/800 to 4.267min. Just saying FYI, Please, don't flame me guys.  Grin
Logged
iluvmycam
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 353


WWW
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2013, 08:04:40 PM »
ReplyReply

I want to know how you guys can even afford them damn things?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad