Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Keep older MFDB system, or go latest and greatest 35mm ProDSLR?  (Read 3566 times)
sbernthal
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 169


« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 01:41:02 PM »
ReplyReply

I've made a very thorough study of this, and I can tell you for sure, that the same aperture on 35mm loses much more quality than on 645, if you reduce the resulting image to the same size.

This behaviour in recorded many studies - such as this one:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 01:43:08 PM by sbernthal » Logged
bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1161


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2013, 01:57:08 PM »
ReplyReply

The only way anyone is ever going to find out if the camera they want is better than the camera they have is to buy it, use it, use it hard.

People buy what they want and unless they have physical breakdowns, usually love what they buy, because they've already jumped the fence.

I think that we all spend too much time worrying about pixels, less time worrying about what the camera is for in the first place.

But if I was the OP, I'd stick with the p30+ and go take a trip and shoot something I've never seen before.

IMO

BC
Logged

ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7680


WWW
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 02:05:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I am quite familiar with the article you quote, and I don't think it supports your views.

What I see is from my limited experience (2-3000 exposures in three months) is that DoF is a significant problem in MFD and also that MFD is very much affected by diffraction at small apertures. A third factor is sharpening, much of the sharpness lost to diffraction can be regained by adequate sharpening, so there are many paramters to juggle.

Most lenses peak about f/8, but very good lenses work best at f/5.6. For instance, HR Digitars have been said to work best at f/5.6. If a DSLR lens needs to be stopped down to f/5.6 and a MFD lens to f/11 it may not be to bad (it is still in the optimal range), but if the DSLR is stopped down to f/11 and the MFD lens to f/22 it matters a lot.

The enclosed screendumps were taken with a Sonnar 150/4 on a P45+, first shows MTF at different apertures and the scon compares f/8 and f/22.

Best regards
Erik

I've made a very thorough study of this, and I can tell you for sure, that the same aperture on 35mm loses much more quality than on 645, if you reduce the resulting image to the same size.

This behaviour in recorded many studies - such as this one:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 02:30:21 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

BobDavid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1079


« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2013, 06:00:30 PM »
ReplyReply

I agree with BCooter. Use the system that best facilitates your process--workflow and subject matter.  I've used just about every film and digital format. Cameras are simply tools.

Wood shop analogies: 1) C-clamps serve one purpose and bar-clamps serve another. 2) Making dovetail joints with hand tools is different than using a router and a jig.

For landscapes, stick with your 30+. As far as versatility goes, it's hard to beat a d800 and complimentary  lenses. I like the trilogy--14-24/f2.8, 24-70/f2.8, 70-200/f2.8.
I own the first two, but opted for the 70-200/f4 VR.

MF has its advantages, especially regarding the ability to record nuance in color and tonality. FF 35mm is great for portability, speedy AF, high ISO, and in the case of the d800, resolution.

Your P30+ files are plenty robust. It's a fine landscape MFDB. Resist the temptation to buy something new when something not so new works fine. I often use  woodworking tools that are over fifty years old.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 08:15:20 PM by BobDavid » Logged
torger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1588


« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2013, 03:16:18 AM »
ReplyReply

Electronics have the problem that they age, go out of production and eventually can no longer be service and repaired. Even if one would like they don't have the life span of purely mechanical equipment. If one wants to be "smart" one can sell the gear while it still has some value, and trade up to some newer gear so one stays with fairly recent gear so you always have well-supported gear.

So the question is relevant, if you plan to drop out of MFDB in the long-term, is the right time to do it now while the current back has quite good value, or stay with it until it's no longer worth selling. A P30+ second hand has already lost quite some value (I'd guess you would get something in the range $4000-$5000 for it if sold today) so I think it's better to keep it for as long as you can, and wait and see what new options for DSLRs and MFDB that appear the coming years.
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7680


WWW
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2013, 03:45:25 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

Good points, as usual.

I have been using my P45+ for three months now, and I am still learning.

Best regards
Erik



The only way anyone is ever going to find out if the camera they want is better than the camera they have is to buy it, use it, use it hard.

People buy what they want and unless they have physical breakdowns, usually love what they buy, because they've already jumped the fence.

I think that we all spend too much time worrying about pixels, less time worrying about what the camera is for in the first place.

But if I was the OP, I'd stick with the p30+ and go take a trip and shoot something I've never seen before.

IMO

BC
Logged

sbernthal
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 169


« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2013, 10:48:36 AM »
ReplyReply

I am quite familiar with the article you quote, and I don't think it supports your views.

Try the calculator at the end of the article.
If you have 645 and 35mm, then do the following:
Take a picture of the same object at f/32 with both cameras.
Then compare front sharpness - it will be much better with 645.
f/32 diffraction on 645 is similar to f/22 diffraction on 35mm, but then back sharpness if better on the 645.
Same goes for f/22 on 645 - similar to f/16 on 35mm - it's one stop more.
Logged
SeanBK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2013, 10:57:57 AM »
ReplyReply

Major major drawback of going just with latest DSLR is you won't be able to post your images for a critique in this section where all great talented photographers hang out. Grin  Yes, most are tolerant but a few will parse the words in EXIF. Wink
 Peace.
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7680


WWW
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2013, 11:22:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I got around that problem by buying a P45+...


Best regards
Erik


Major major drawback of going just with latest DSLR is you won't be able to post your images for a critique in this section where all great talented photographers hang out. Grin  Yes, most are tolerant but a few will parse the words in EXIF. Wink
 Peace.
Logged

SeanBK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2013, 11:40:00 AM »
ReplyReply

Erik,
  Though your vast knowledge does buy u a free pass, IMHO. But I did keep my Hasselblad H series earlier model, tho' D800E makes it sit on the shelf more. Could b 'cause of more travel photography at least in '13. Thnx for sharing your technical know-how, as an Engineer I appreciate it.
Logged
iluvmycam
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


WWW
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2013, 12:35:37 PM »
ReplyReply


OP...If you have the $$, just keep buying the newest cam to come down the pike. (If you think it is all that is needed to supply the missing link that will improve your photography)

Hell, for me I'm going backwards. I have (2) 645D and will still keep it. But I bought a SWC, 3 backs and am looking for a 2nd SWC.

I used to shoot SWC back in the 70's. I missed what it gave me.

The images were magnificent...

(Nude)

http://www.artslant.com/ny/works/show/732608-the-sunlit-slipper

http://www.artslant.com/ny/works/show/691521-crazy

« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:42:43 PM by iluvmycam » Logged
lowep
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


WWW
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2013, 09:50:53 PM »
ReplyReply

People buy what they want and unless they have physical breakdowns, usually love what they buy, because they've already jumped the fence.

 Huh

Unless I am totally wrong again, some people (like me for example) buy what they think they want and even if they don't have physical breakdowns (to blame for their mistake) usually hate what they buy, because they've already jumped the fence ie no way out except to sell the darn thing and start over
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 09:54:45 PM by lowep » Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8210



WWW
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2013, 11:01:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Major major drawback of going just with latest DSLR is you won't be able to post your images for a critique in this section where all great talented photographers hang out. Grin  Yes, most are tolerant but a few will parse the words in EXIF. Wink

The solution to this is obviously stitching... since the virtual sensor resulting from stitching with FF DSLR is typically many times larger than the largest of the MF sensors.  Wink

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Pages: « 1 [2]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad