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Author Topic: Power to the People!!, Adobe Eat this!  (Read 9542 times)
digitaldog
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« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2013, 07:42:25 PM »
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No it's not absolutely false. I need a working copy of PS to open my psd files. When you stop the payments you can no longer use Photoshop!

No, that is untrue and false. I've got both products. There is no issue opening a PSD built in CC in CS6. But why save a PSD, save a layered TIFF.

Example: one can create a Shake Reduction layer in CC and since that edit is stamped into the layer, it will open just fine in CS6. Can you re-edit the layer using Shake Reduction in CS6? No, that is unique functionality only found in CC. But that's not the point, any new proprietary processing unique to CC is unique to CC. Further, nothing stops you from flattening any and all layers built in CC as a PSD and opening it in Photoshop 1.0.7! OR any product that can open a TIFF!

Bascially, you don't know what you're talking about when you make the false statement: you will be locked out of your psd files forever! It is untrue.

You even have CC? You tested your flat earth theory?
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Andrew Rodney
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JohnAONeill
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« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2013, 07:47:16 PM »
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Thanks for that post. That's interesting news. I hope they can get the support for this. Perhaps one good thing to come of all this is that people will take a more serious look at alternatives to adobe.
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Isaac
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« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2013, 08:11:17 PM »
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Also, "Photoshop Elements - File formats for importing ... PSD"

Also, "There is no issue opening a PSD built in CC in CS6. But why save a PSD, save a layered TIFF".
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JohnAONeill
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« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2013, 08:37:09 PM »
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No, that is untrue and false. I've got both products. There is no issue opening a PSD built in CC in CS6. But why save a PSD, save a layered TIFF.

Example: one can create a Shake Reduction layer in CC and since that edit is stamped into the layer, it will open just fine in CS6. Can you re-edit the layer using Shake Reduction in CS6? No, that is unique functionality only found in CC. But that's not the point, any new proprietary processing unique to CC is unique to CC. Further, nothing stops you from flattening any and all layers built in CC as a PSD and opening it in Photoshop 1.0.7! OR any product that can open a TIFF!

 

Bascially, you don't know what you're talking about when you make the false statement: you will be locked out of your psd files forever! It is untrue.

I currently have just over half a million images in my current database with an enormous number of saved work files in PSD format. If you have the spare time to convert all of these files to tiffs for me then great. I DON'T. Moving on to the CS6 solving all your backwards compatibility issues, then what happens when CS6 is NO LONGER supported on current operating systems and you discontinue a CC subscriptions? Yep you guessed it...your locked out!

You even have CC? You tested your flat earth theory?

Nope. Have CS5 on my Mac and CS3 on my PC and was due to upgrade the PC before all this came about. Now I will not upgrade unless Adobe offer me what I want/need, instead of trying to ram it down my throat.

Do any of
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digitaldog
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« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2013, 09:12:27 PM »
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I currently have just over half a million images in my current database with an enormous number of saved work files in PSD format. If you have the spare time to convert all of these files to tiffs for me then great. I DON'T. Moving on to the CS6 solving all your backwards compatibility issues, then what happens when CS6 is NO LONGER supported on current operating systems and you discontinue a CC subscriptions? Yep you guessed it...your locked out!

First of all, your fault for not understanding that PSD is a proprietary Adobe format. And that there is nothing, other than Duotone support that PSD provides that a TIFF can't provide. You want to continue to use CS5 (or CS6) forever? Stick with your current hardware and OS. Adobe isn't forcing you to upgrade either.

Second, you can easily batch convert all those files to TIFF to fix your mistake.

Third, that they are PSD files doesn't dismiss your incorrect statement that you can't open them in earlier versions of Photoshop. Even CS5. Even CS3!

Forth, your statement is flat out wrong: I need a working copy of PS to open my psd files. When you stop the payments you can no longer use Photoshop!
That's simply incorrect.

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Nope. Have CS5 on my Mac and CS3 on my PC and was due to upgrade the PC before all this came about.
Good, then you can absolutely open your PSD files in either. I explained you may not be able to edit them using newer proprietary functionality that is in CC that you decided to no longer use by not subscribing. But you'd be advised to use an open file format like TIFF considering you are planing, by your own doing to stop using Photoshop and it's proprietary file format!
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2013, 09:27:21 AM »
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Further, I just opened a CC created PSD with layers in GraphicConverter, a fine product.
http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/start/
Full version: just $39.95
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Andrew Rodney
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2013, 10:06:07 AM »
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Further, I just opened a CC created PSD with layers in GraphicConverter, a fine product.
http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/start/
Full version: just $39.95

Hi Andrew,

Can you confirm whether it opens them in 16-bit/channel, and alpha channels/masks?
According to their web-site its PSD functionality only "Supports 1, 8, 24 bit per pixel".

Cheers,
Bart
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digitaldog
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« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2013, 10:55:30 AM »
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Can you confirm whether it opens them in 16-bit/channel, and alpha channels/masks?
According to their web-site its PSD functionality only "Supports 1, 8, 24 bit per pixel".

Yes, they open as 16-bit, according to the file info and size.

Quote
mage width:
3000
Image height:
2097
Number of bits per component:
{16,16,16}
Compression scheme:
reserved
Pixel composition:
RGB
Image title:
roman16 bvdm Reference Images for visual assessment, processing and output 
in premedia and print
Orientation of image:
1
Number of components:
3
X resolution:
300.0 ppi (pixel per inch)
Y resolution:
300.0 ppi (pixel per inch)
Image data arrangement:
1
Resolution unit:
inch
Software:
Adobe Photoshop CC (Macintosh)

The Alpha channel is 'honored' in that I see it's effect on the image. It does open this as a flattened PSD but I believe one can import individual layers which then reside on GraphicConverter's own proprietary layers.
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Andrew Rodney
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2013, 11:41:20 AM »
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Yes, they open as 16-bit, according to the file info and size.

Good. Strange that they don't mention that on their website. Maybe it's mentioned somewhere else than in the list of supported formats. I can't find it in their PDF manual either.

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The Alpha channel is 'honored' in that I see it's effect on the image. It does open this as a flattened PSD but I believe one can import individual layers which then reside on GraphicConverter's own proprietary layers.

In their manual they mention that one can split in the individual layers on export, don't know if a TIFF from a PDF will contain the layers, but I assume it does. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that all adjustment layers are functional. I suppose one needs to install the software and try it to find out.

Cheers,
Bart
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JohnAONeill
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« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2013, 07:38:13 PM »
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First of all, your fault for not understanding that PSD is a proprietary Adobe format. And that there is nothing, other than Duotone support that PSD provides that a TIFF can't provide. You want to continue to use CS5 (or CS6) forever? Stick with your current hardware and OS. Adobe isn't forcing you to upgrade either.

So now your saying it's my fault for actually using the technology which I paid for???

Second, you can easily batch convert all those files to TIFF to fix your mistake.

Jeez that's got to be the most arrogant remark I have seen on this forum. Did you consider that I may use duotones too or sorry was this a "mistake" too??

Third, that they are PSD files doesn't dismiss your incorrect statement that you can't open them in earlier versions of Photoshop. Even CS5. Even CS3!

We sort of covered that point already but clearly you chose to ignore my reply. I'm not going to repeat any points that I have already made. Clearly you have made the decision to defend Adobe's actions regardless of the implications for many of your fellow photographers. Perhaps it is because you make a living from selling training courses on Adobe's products that makes it hard for you view this from a strictly photographers viewpoint. My opinions reflect the views of many others on this forum who take issue with the way Adobe have moved the goal posts.

Forth, your statement is flat out wrong: I need a working copy of PS to open my psd files. When you stop the payments you can no longer use Photoshop!
That's simply incorrect.

So let's say a new photographer signs up to CC today and one year later he cannot afford the subs. He never had CS6 before so what does he do? Is he not locked out of his files? My old version of PS will not be working in years to come as OS changes will render it useless. I don't want to keep old hardware knocking around for decades just to provide a life insurance policy for my PSD files. What I want, after over a decade of Payments to Adobe is a fair resolution to this problem.

Good, then you can absolutely open your PSD files in either. I explained you may not be able to edit them using newer proprietary functionality that is in CC that you decided to no longer use by not subscribing. But you'd be advised to use an open file format like TIFF considering you are planing, by your own doing to stop using Photoshop and it's proprietary file format!

So you are willing to accept that PSD may offer additional functionality in the future but you still consider everyone that uses it to be stupid right? ;-)
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digitaldog
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« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2013, 08:04:35 PM »
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So now your saying it's my fault for actually using the technology which I paid for???
John, I'm correcting a factually incorrect statement you made: Until the day comes that you no longer wish to pay the subscription. Then you will be locked out of your psd files forever!
That's simply WRONG!
We don't need more, incorrect FUD from people who don't know what they are talking about. Please.

Next, you paid to save in any number of formats. That you saved in one that's far less flexible in terms of using other software products, well yes, you did that to yourself! Had you saved as Layered TIFFs, your options to open that data elsewhere would be far greater. But that's kind of moot. You can open your PSDs in earlier versions of Photoshop of which you yourself admit you own. You can open them in other products too (we've provided several other options). So again, you're dead wrong when you write: Until the day comes that you no longer wish to pay the subscription. Then you will be locked out of your psd files forever!
Get it?

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Jeez that's got to be the most arrogant remark I have seen on this forum. Did you consider that I may use duotones too or sorry was this a "mistake" too??
Do you? Are all those files Duotones? Of course, what you find arrogant is me correcting you on your severe misunderstanding of file formats. Don't save your documents in TIFF, save them as PSD and guess what? You can still open them outside of CC after you stop subscribing. Sorry if the facts that dismiss your post upset you. You're just wrong.

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We sort of covered that point already but clearly you chose to ignore my reply. I'm not going to repeat any points that I have already made. Clearly you have made the decision to defend Adobe's actions regardless of the implications for many of your fellow photographers. Perhaps it is because you make a living from selling training courses on Adobe's products that makes it hard for you view this from a strictly photographers viewpoint. My opinions reflect the views of many others on this forum who take issue with the way Adobe have moved the goal posts.
Nice tact. It doesn't at all dismiss your ignorance of the facts that dismiss your incorrect post. Admit it, once you stop subscribing to CC, you CAN open your PSD's even if you probably should have had the smarts to understand the ramifications of canceling your subscription. 
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So let's say a new photographer signs up to CC today and one year later he cannot afford the subs. He never had CS6 before so what does he do? Is he not locked out of his files?
No, he isn't. If he was as ill informed as you, he'll have to purchase a product that can open a PSD of which there ARE applications available. If he were more informed than you, he'd have saved TIFF's. With layers. Which also contains a flattened version he could open in probably hundreds of software products. He'd do this before he pulls the plug on his subscription.
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old version of PS will not be working in years to come as OS changes will render it useless.

His fault for pulling the plug and saving PSD's without doing some basic research, something you should try!
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I don't want to keep old hardware knocking around for decades just to provide a life insurance policy for my PSD files.
Save as TIFF, or JPEG if you must. You want 100% certainty that whatever file format your images are in today, someone can open them anytime in the future? Not going to happen. Welcome to the real world John.
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What I want, after over a decade of Payments to Adobe is a fair resolution to this problem.
Work smart John. I told you why you're painting yourself more into a corner saving as PSD. It is a proprietary Adobe format. Then you want to bail on Adobe and you expect that you'll have better access to your images because you used a proprietary format AND moved from the company that built those files? Are you serious?
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So you are willing to accept that PSD may offer additional functionality in the future but you still consider everyone that uses it to be stupid right? ;-)
Wait, you're saying in one sentence you want to have flexibility to leave the Adobe proprietary fold, then you ask if using the proprietary format, you might lose something? OF COURSE you want to use whatever format or for that matter software provides you the tools and solutions you need. If that's really true, stick with Adobe and their proprietary tools. But what you're asking isn't the case today and hasn't been for years and years. The facts, the reality IS that TIFF provides everything other than Duotone support that a PSD does. If that changes, let's consider the ramifications, mostly, you have even more reason to stick with Adobe.

You have gone to great lengths to avoid admitting that something you said that's factually incorrect. Why drag us down a rabbit hole (what happens IF Adobe does this or that). The facts today are, if you work in CC and save PSD, which I would not recommend, you CAN open your PSD's after canceling the subscription. That doesn't mean you have all the features and functionality that you had when you were paying to use CC (duh)!
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Andrew Rodney
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http://digitaldog.net/
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2013, 09:16:19 PM »
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OK! Time Out.

I have locked this thread since I believe that most of us have heard enough.

If you feel it important to continue, PM me with a good and reasoned explanation.

Chris
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Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
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