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Author Topic: Matte Papers  (Read 5173 times)
felix5616
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« on: September 07, 2013, 05:13:30 PM »
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Looking for some suggestions for smooth, heavyweight, no optical brightener matte paper with wide color gamut and high black density.
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chez
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 05:27:55 PM »
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Looking for some suggestions for smooth, heavyweight, no optical brightener matte paper with wide color gamut and high black density.

Well if you could relax the "no optical brightener" requirement, the Breathing Color Optica one paper is pretty special.
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tastar
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 05:42:53 PM »
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Ditto for the OBA's - Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin - as it states in the description, unprinted areas have a matte appearance, otherwise, it has an extremely wide gamut, very deep blacks, excellent reproduction of detail and is archival. At this link on Hahnemuhle's website.

Tony
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MHMG
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 06:24:34 PM »
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Ditto for the OBA's - Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin - as it states in the description, unprinted areas have a matte appearance, otherwise, it has an extremely wide gamut, very deep blacks, excellent reproduction of detail and is archival. At this link on Hahnemuhle's website.

Tony

Unlike the Optica One, the OBAs in HN Satin Rag are minimal and confined to the paper core, not the coating. So, Lightfade resistance and media white point stability is quite good. Additionally, HN photo rag Satin does have truly unique differential gloss properties with pigment inks (i.e, higher gloss in heavy ink areas, less in low ink areas and thus no odd differential gloss "holes" seen from highlight to pure white transitions which typically happens with pigmented inks on glossier papers). That said, I just bought my first 17x22 inch 25 sheet box of Satin rag after being intrigued with some sample prints I had seen first hand, and I really really want to like this paper. Unfortunately, the batch I received is exhibiting a subtle yet noticeable image mottle with my Canon Lucia EX inks that I hadn't seen in the samples (the samples had been made with HP Vivera pigments).  Not sure if it's an ink compatibility issue or just a bad batch, but I'm out a good chunk of change with unexpected results and not too happy about that. I'm also not sure if I want to gamble on buying another batch to determine if my first batch was just a bad batch rather than a consistent problem with the Lucia inks. The issue is subtle enough that I'm not sure my dealer would agree with me that there's a problem... but there is a problem as far as I'm concerned. Not enough hours in the day to run down every ink jet printing problem. Some times one just has to cut losses and move on.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 06:29:45 PM by MHMG » Logged
Stephen G
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 12:58:06 AM »
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Papers I've used:

Using matte black ink: Epson Hot Press Natural - excellent dMax and gamut. Nice, bright, warm white point. My mainstay for art repros (mostly watercolours) and matte photographic work.
photo black ink: Innova IFA19 Warmtone gloss (it's very low gloss, more of a soft satin, so might fit your matte requirement)

papers that fit, that I wouldn't mind trying:
Hahnemuhle Museum Etching - tested one sheet long ago on a 9800 running Imageprint - loved it.
Hahnemuhle Photorag Natural White (can't find it on their website now, but have seen it on my local pricelist - might be discontinued)
Breathing Colour Pura
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 05:55:44 AM »
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Papers I've used:

Using matte black ink: Epson Hot Press Natural - excellent dMax and gamut. Nice, bright, warm white point. My mainstay for art repros (mostly watercolours) and matte photographic work.
photo black ink: Innova IFA19 Warmtone gloss (it's very low gloss, more of a soft satin, so might fit your matte requirement)

papers that fit, that I wouldn't mind trying:
Hahnemuhle Museum Etching - tested one sheet long ago on a 9800 running Imageprint - loved it.
Hahnemuhle Photorag Natural White (can't find it on their website now, but have seen it on my local pricelist - might be discontinued)
Breathing Colour Pura


All papers mentioned below are for the matte black ink so Dmax will stay below or is equal to 1.8.

The Epson Hot Press Natural and the three other ones (CP, HP) of that range are not in my stock of papers but at least the two that contain OBA are interesting too as they seem to have a longevity not met by other matte papers with OBA content. See Aardenburg-Imaging tests. There is an interesting effect that when (carbon) B&W is printed on the Hot Press qualities (and Premier Art Smooth BW) the Lab b value is more constant through the tone range than with other papers with or without OBA content. Paul Roark observed that and my theory is that the OBA for one reason or another does not loose its effect where heavier (and usually warmer) black ink covers the paper. That should imply OBA on the top of the paper and possibly staying on top. Much in contradiction with the theory that OBAs should be throughout the paper to keep some longevity. I can see the OBA on top in the Premier paper spectral plot but the Epson paper samples HP + CP that I measured are dual sided so the plots do not show it.

Both Hahnemühle qualities described above are excellent with my HP Z printers, my guess is that the PR natural White is just the neutral plain Photorag. Never heard of a Natural White one while there is a PR Bright White of which the OBAs do not stand time. The Photorag 310 gsm is still my main matte photo paper.
The textured HM Museum Etching (Cotton) has far less issues with the coating than for example German Etching (Alpha Cellulose) and it has no OBA content. I have to decurl the leading edge of that 350 gsm paper before feeding a Z with it, and keep the cutter off till all the images are printed. Otherwise the head carriage touches the paper too often on the leading edges. Very nice paper. Canson Inf. BFK Rives 310 gsm is a good alternative too, with the Z3200 an equally good print can be made. Slightly higher white reflection and a bit more neutral.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.




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kdphotography
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 08:13:26 AM »
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Breathing Color's new Pura Smooth is basically the same as their Optica One, without OBAs.

I'd use the Pura.
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hugowolf
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 04:23:09 PM »
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Canson Rag Photographique 310 is my choice for a smooth rag paper - I much prefer it over Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308. I really like Canson Rives BFK, but it is difficult to justify the price differential to customers.

I don't think I would call Hahnemühle Photo Rag Satin a matte paper, even in the unprinted areas.

Brian A
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OliverS
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 06:58:22 AM »
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Felix, where you from?

In Europe there is "MediaJet Museum Natural Rag" the paper you are searching for.
No OBA´s, smooth, heavyweight (260gsm but feels like 310) with wide color gamut and high black density.
Wilhelm Test is running, atm 48years under glass.
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IWC Doppel
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 02:51:51 PM »
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I prefer matt papers with a little texture, my favourites are

HFA Museum Etching
Epson Cold press Natural

Going for smoother

HFA PhotoRag 308g (Not sure about OBA's)
Canson BFK Rives (Not really got to know this yet)
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TylerB
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 03:26:24 PM »
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Looking for some suggestions for smooth, heavyweight, no optical brightener matte paper with wide color gamut and high black density.

Epson Hot Pres Natural and Canson Rag Photographique fulfill your criteria. The Epson a warmer base, the Canson more neutral.
Tyler
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artobest
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 08:16:19 AM »
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Don't forget Innova Smooth Cotton Natural White. Great paper.
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hokuahi
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 09:53:34 AM »
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I'm liking Epson Hotpress Natural... It nicely picks up subtle color using my 3880.
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 10:23:11 AM »
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HM Rag Satin for me. I've been using it for 5 years or so and it's still one of my favourite paper. The shadow areas are crap when using the canned profile tho so I suggest building a custom profile.
HM White etching satin is similar to the Photorag Satin but with a slightly different texture and I suspect as with german etching, it uses alpha cellulose instead of cotton. It's a wonderful paper too but too bad HM ended the line a while back I think.

Optica One by BC is a good choice for a pure no-frills matte paper but the curl is horrible.
If OBA isnt an issue I'd recommend HM Rag BrightWhite.

Texture wise HM German/Museum etching are wonderful, especially if you want to include deckled edges to the print.

I print mostly on the epson 11880.

I did some tests on the Pixma pro-1 and pro-10 and the inks do indeed have issues with matte papers of all makes, especially the blacks. They know of the issue (since forever) and are working to rectify.
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Rob Reiter
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 11:33:59 AM »
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Canson Rag Photographique is a good bet, but surprisingly, I think Hahnemühle Bamboo, while slightly warmer, also is a gorgeous paper and worth a look.
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TylerB
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 12:38:38 PM »
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I agree Bamboo is lovely, and fit's the OP's criteria..
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JRSmit
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2013, 12:06:38 AM »
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The innova ifa11 is one of my favorites, cotton rag base, no oba, quite smooth, heavy, customers love it. I use an epson 4900, and make my own profiles. The ifa24 is less heavy, alpha-cellulose, with a light texture, a tad more white if noticable, and somewhat bigger gamut.
They have several others, some quite heavy if that is required.
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OnyimBob
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 04:39:38 AM »
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I've been using Museo Portfolio rag for years - never thought of looking elsewhere - it pushes all my buttons.
Bob.
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robgo2
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 10:47:31 PM »
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I've been using Museo Portfolio rag for years - never thought of looking elsewhere - it pushes all my buttons.
Bob.
Museo Portfolio Rag produces the most gorgeous B&W prints with deep velvety blacks, and it is my top choice for that purpose.  I have seen very lovely color prints on it as well.  However, some people around LuLa are down on MPR, because it has not fared well in light fade tests.  That may be so, but I expect that the prints will outlast me by quite a few years, so I regard light fading as a non-issue.  

Rob
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 10:50:04 PM by robgo2 » Logged
rgs
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2013, 07:49:19 PM »
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Canson Rag Photographique 310 is my choice for a smooth rag paper - I much prefer it over Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308. I really like Canson Rives BFK, but it is difficult to justify the price differential to customers.

Brian A

Agree completely. This is a beautiful paper and it works well with my Canon PRO 100. It's harder to find a matte for a dye printer.
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