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Author Topic: Looking into buying a MF digital  (Read 5661 times)
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2013, 08:29:02 AM »
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Thanks for the input.
The HTS is the reason I'm considering Hasselblad as opposed to other brands.

That is quite interesting about the HC 80mm, I will be buying the kit used, so it might not include that lens, but if it's that good, I will buy it. How well does that lens work with smaller subjects such as jewelry and such (small rings in particular)? does it have enough magnification?

Any input on which body would suit my needs best? used H3D 39 or H3DII 39 is all I can afford since I'm going to get the HTS and a lens with it as well, but if it's that much better I can save a bit more for the H4D 40.


@Simon: Thanks, that looks rather interesting, I'll keep it in mind.


You can also still consider other brands as the Hasselblad HTS 1.5 is not proprietary - it will work with Phase One, Leaf, and Sinar digital back brands with H1/H2/H4X cameras minus any automatic Hasselblad software corrections and retained exif data on shift/tilt movements.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
jerome_m
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 08:53:32 AM »
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Wow, I've never heard so much bullshit rules in one go before, like since grade school... if something's out of it's original box, it's not a product anymore, period. You don't even have to hide the stuff or anything, just put into your camera bag and say "it's my camera", does anyone honestly track what you left and came back with?

I don't think this is the forum to discuss the legalities of importing products into different countries, but if it would be sufficient to strip a "product" of its original boxes to dodge import taxes in your country, don't you think that you would find that most "products" would be sold without their original boxes in shops?

You do not seem to have travelled a lot. Customs can require that you prove that you paid applicable duties in all countries of the world.
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File Photography Studio
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 09:45:47 AM »
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Do you consider the combination of Fuji GX680 III and Hasselbland 40mpix DB?? The Fuji lenses are very good and Cheaper!!

Marios Karampalis
www.filephotography.com
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Kolor-Pikker
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 11:54:25 AM »
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I don't think this is the forum to discuss the legalities of importing products into different countries, but if it would be sufficient to strip a "product" of its original boxes to dodge import taxes in your country, don't you think that you would find that most "products" would be sold without their original boxes in shops?

You do not seem to have travelled a lot. Customs can require that you prove that you paid applicable duties in all countries of the world.

Actually I travel constantly, I've been to/from the US, Russia, China, Israel, Germany, Iraq, etc. I remember last time me and my partner were in Israel, we took two big baggage cases stuffed with things we bought there that would have been 4x cheaper than local prices, no one batted an eye. Same with China only it was four 21kg baggage cases because they let us without charging extra; and there was everything, alcohol, jewlery, clothing, luxery accessories, the works.

Maybe there are official rules or something, but no one ever checks, ever. I agree that this isn't the place to discuss politics or morals, but quite frankly what I'm saying is that this is a viable option. And I say this from 7 years of flying all over the world.
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jerome_m
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 12:12:16 PM »
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Maybe there are official rules or something, but no one ever checks, ever.

Tourists are rarely checked, yes.
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KhaledA
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2013, 12:36:36 PM »
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Yes, I was talking about the S2 prices in Israel. There is customs on imported goods here, even used, however, for some reason, they especially check items made in Germany (like the Leica), and thus are more suspect to customs if sent by mail.
As for going to Europe or the US, and buy there, that's actually a quite good idea, I have an uncle who lives in California, so it should only cost me ticket price (and no hotel) to go visit him, and buy some gear there.

As for the Leica S2, I did not know about it having adapters for various lenses (I'm still new to MF digital), so it will still retain AF with H lenses then? would it also give me the short sync speed I'd get from the leaf shutter?

I've called Hasselblad representative today, and I should be able to test drive an H4D-40, and a friend of mine who's also my mentor shoots with Mamiya with Aptus back, and agreed to lend it to me for a week for testing. We'll see which system I end up liking more, and which I will save up for.

One stupid question, and kind of off topic, but is buying from the sale section of this site safe? I mean, I know buying online is always a gamble, but still, how do I know which sellers are legit? is there some sort of feedback system? 

Thanks everyone for the help, it's much appreciated.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2013, 01:18:14 PM »
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Hi,

You don't know. On the other hand, you can get recommendations from others who have bought from the same sellers.

Best regards
Erik


Yes, I was talking about the S2 prices in Israel. There is customs on imported goods here, even used, however, for some reason, they especially check items made in Germany (like the Leica), and thus are more suspect to customs if sent by mail.
As for going to Europe or the US, and buy there, that's actually a quite good idea, I have an uncle who lives in California, so it should only cost me ticket price (and no hotel) to go visit him, and buy some gear there.

As for the Leica S2, I did not know about it having adapters for various lenses (I'm still new to MF digital), so it will still retain AF with H lenses then? would it also give me the short sync speed I'd get from the leaf shutter?

I've called Hasselblad representative today, and I should be able to test drive an H4D-40, and a friend of mine who's also my mentor shoots with Mamiya with Aptus back, and agreed to lend it to me for a week for testing. We'll see which system I end up liking more, and which I will save up for.

One stupid question, and kind of off topic, but is buying from the sale section of this site safe? I mean, I know buying online is always a gamble, but still, how do I know which sellers are legit? is there some sort of feedback system? 

Thanks everyone for the help, it's much appreciated.

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sbernthal
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2013, 01:40:17 PM »
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If what you're looking for is manual focus tilf shift 50mp at a reasonable price, then I would recommend you this:
Fuji GX 680 III - the easiest way into tilt/shift - the camera is large but not as large as LF.
You can get a full set  of body lenses and accessories for $2K - of couse it comes with waist finder.
You need the Kapture Group adapter as well or the Korean modification.
I used to shoot with this rig which is very nice but at the end I prefered the fully automatic smaller 645.
Leaf Aptus II 10 - you can get for $12K used.
Leaf Aptus II 8 for as low as $7000.
Both are miles ahead of 5D3 which I own.

I would stay away from Hasselblad, as the company's behaviour is questionable and they do a lot of steps in the stop support direction with no regard for their customers. I've heard some horror stories about lemon backs.
The Hasselblad rep in Israel didn't exactly win me over with his attitude either.
Can you tell me where you rented H3DII-39 and for how much?

If you live in Israel like me, I don't see how you can look past the perfect support you can get from Leaf.
I can just walk into their home office and get whatever I need immediately.
Hasselblad and Phase can never offer anything like that in Israel.

To your other questions - the new Fuji lenses are sharper than the old Zeiss and very slightly sharper than Mamiya/Schneider.
If you use manual focus then H3D/H4D is not much difference except newer generation color rendition on the back - if they changed much between versions I don't know.
The only tax that Israel has on photographic equipment is 18% VAT.
All VAT is refunded to businesses, so if your business is registered, then you get all the VAT back.
There is no problem to import any camera or back - I've done it many times.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 02:29:30 PM by sbernthal » Logged
Nick-T
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2013, 04:42:25 PM »
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Hi Khaled
I use an H4D40 with an HTS all the time. I also use an H3d31, a 5D2 and a D800.
Happy to answer ay questions you might have.
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Kolor-Pikker
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 06:14:49 PM »
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As for the Leica S2, I did not know about it having adapters for various lenses (I'm still new to MF digital), so it will still retain AF with H lenses then? would it also give me the short sync speed I'd get from the leaf shutter?
Yes, the Hasselblad adapter has AF, aperture and 1/800th leaf shutter functions. The Contax adapter also supports AF and aperture. Both of these adapters actually save metadata for the attached lens, so if Lightroom has the profile for the lens in question, it will automatically apply corrections.
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KhaledA
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« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 12:00:06 AM »
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@sbernthal: Not sure, I've had quite pleasant experience with ABS so far (this is where I rented the Hassy a few years back, it was about $1000 for lens, back and body), it's Jugend Bros. that weren't that pleasant to deal with (when I rented Profoto gear from them).

@Kolor-Pikker: Ah, cool then. So, given both systems, any reason to go with the Leica compared to the Hassy?

@Nick: Thanks. Comparing the H3D and H4D, is there any serious improvements made to the sensor? my main shooting is still life, although sometimes I do work with models.
If I have anymore questions, I'll hit you a PM if you don't mind.
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sbernthal
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« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2013, 01:33:25 AM »
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Jugend are very bad too.
However, you can be a client of Capture Integration and do your repairs directly vs. Leaf and only pay CI online for it.
I'd rather give my money to them than to Jugend.
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KhaledA
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« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2013, 01:39:06 AM »
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Wait, isn't CI an American company? I'm confused now.
I was planning to import a used camera from them anyhow, not buy new.
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sbernthal
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 01:52:35 AM »
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What's the problem?
They're connected to the internet and so am I.
Shipping takes 5 days.
Back repairs are done here anyway for Leaf so no need to ship backs.
Israel market is too small so all the dealers are unprofessional.
They can't give recommendations because they sell 1-2 backs a year so they don't know much.
Try asking for your money back on anything, and be ready to hear a hearty laugh and make their day.
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sbernthal
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« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 02:07:26 AM »
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I bought a used back from a dealer in Israel once.
It came with zero accessories - I'm talking chargers, cables covers - nada. I had to go to Leaf and they were nice enough to provide me with everything for free. The dealer gave me completely incorrect instructions on how to use the back. Leaf were nice enough to give me the correct ones.

Then I wanted to trade that back for a new one two months later - they told me they would count it as 40% of what I paid for it. That is when I want to pay for a new expensive back and I didn't pay that much for the used one. Not a smart decision on their side, seemed to me.

Then two months later the back dies. I asked them to waive some of their commission on the $2500 fix - they said they were sorry, it was completely impossible to discount even 1$. That is on a back they sold me less than six month before - of course with no warranty. US dealers always sell used backs with accessories and warranty.

My next back came from Digital Transitions - all the accessories, warranty, proper explanations. As we say in Israel - never again (buy from an Israeli dealer.)

You can say what you want about Americans - but they know how to run a business.

Also, the american dealers are fully internet enabled - you can conduct all the discussions and payment online. Israeli dealers still insist on phone and f2f.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 02:44:14 AM by sbernthal » Logged
KhaledA
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« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 02:59:33 AM »
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Hey, you're preaching to quire here.
I wasn't planning on buying from Israel anyway, either buy from eBay or from Capture Integration. Dealers from all over the world, except third world countries, they all have better customer service than Israeli dealers. In fact, the only Israeli dealer of camera equipment I like is "Camera", and that's because the people at the Haifa branch are really knowledgeable and nice people. But their prices for the Leica S2 are through the roof.

One question, since you seem to have better experience than me at this, do I still have to pay the VAT even if I import used items? since I was taxed pretty heavily on a lens I bought from Japan.

As for Leaf, I wasn't aware their headquarters was in Israel until I actually did a research just few minutes ago, impressive. Does that mean the Israeli market gets cheaper prices on new backs compared to the US or something?


PS: Who do I contact if I'm interested in a Leaf back? on the Mamiya Leaf site they only list Jugend as a dealer.
Thanks,
Khaled
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 03:01:56 AM by KhaledA » Logged
sbernthal
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« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 03:46:41 AM »
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Preaching to the choir.
Many European dealers are difficult too, I would stick with Americans.
VAT is calculated based on the value determined by customs,  regardless of whether the item is new or not. How they calculate that value is something worth knowing but only if you don't have a tax registered business. You can email me.

Leaf prices in Israel are the same, only service turnaround can be much faster.

Jugend is the only local dealer, but as I said, nobody's stopping you from ordering at CI.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 03:48:26 AM by sbernthal » Logged
KhaledA
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« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 04:30:48 AM »
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Thanks,

Sent you a PM, since we're a bit derailing the thread as is.
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Kolor-Pikker
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« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 07:26:54 AM »
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@Kolor-Pikker: Ah, cool then. So, given both systems, any reason to go with the Leica compared to the Hassy?
This is purely preferential, as the differences may or may not matter to you. Leica is 3:2 aspect ratio, Hass is 3:4 ratio. Leica is small, light and weather-sealed, making it useful outside and off the tripod should you need it. Leica has a focal plane shutter, so it's maximum speed is 1/4000th in daylight, whereas H cameras have no shutter and are thus limited to 1/800th leaf shutter. This is quite stretching it now, but the Leica is also better at high ISO, and goes a stop higher than the Hass.

Either way, the best camera is the one you decide for yourself, by trying them out.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 08:08:30 AM »
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I bought a MF setup here via Jugend.

The 'blad representative from whatever the company was called was totally clueless. Waste of time.

I got a 3 year free rental during repair included in the price of the package, aside from the usual warranty on the camera the lenses and the Leaf back.  We are very high stress shooters, 2000 frames a day, blew through a mirror box and shutter within a year. Never had a problem getting that free rental. The Hasselblad people back then (year and a half ago) had a single replacement camera/back for the entire country. Jugend has a bunch and if they run out they will drop ship from Leaf direct. When our Leaf back burned out the repair was done here by Leaf in Kfar Saba for free and I got it back within a couple of weeks during which I had the free rental. When I was having problems with my firewire card Leaf shipped me next day a firewire card of their own to see if it would fix the problems.

I wouldn't think for a second about buying abroad, MF gear is like a high end sports car, i.e. you will be fixing it. Without a serious support network you're going to be paying some serious money and spending some serious time without your camera sending it abroad and spending serious headaches getting back through customs who are a nightmare. Getting free rentals is a serious expense other places in the world, involves expensive add on packages at Phase for example, you can negotiate it here for nothing, nada.

I honestly think the Hasselblad is the better camera (H4D upwards) but unless their dealer, representative and support network here is a world better than a year ago, I'd not go near them.

Honestly, call Benny Baruch at Jugend (037969003), tell him Beni from Jerusalem who shoots manuscripts sent you, listen to what they have to say, go and meet with them. With this kind of expense and for that kind of money, you really need to at least speak them and see if it might work for you, what do you have to lose?

Another thing and putting my flame suit on for this. If you're looking at the 40 megapixel range then you really owe it to yourself to try the D800e. Just try it. We're shooting the D800e alongside a Leaf 40 megapixel back and well, as I said, just try it and make your own mind up.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:19:52 AM by Ben Rubinstein » Logged

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