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Author Topic: Most efficient way to generate camera profiles with Colorchecker SG?  (Read 2545 times)
Ligament
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« on: September 11, 2013, 11:46:51 PM »
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Howdy All,

I don't print nor scan, but need advice on generating camera DCP and ICC profiles on Mac OS X.

Note; I would use these profiles primarily for landscape work. I don't do much studio shooting or controlled light shooting.

I have the following color targets:

1. Colorchecker SG
2. Colorchecker Passport (dont like the profiles the supplied software makes)
3. QP card 203 book (like the profiles it makes but the color palette is limited compared to the Colorchecker SG and would like to find something better)

I have the following digital cameras I'd like to generate profiles for:
D800e, Ricoh GR, Sigma DP1-3 Merrils

I know which software I can use with the Colorchecker Passport and QP Card, but there seems to be a vast array and potentially very expensive software options for generating profiles off the Colorchecker SG.

Questions:
1. Can I obtain a meaningfully more accurate camera profile using Colorchecker SG and third party software compared to QP card and matching software?
2. Which software should I use with the Colorchecker SG to generate icc profiles?
3. Which software should I use with the Colorchecker SG to generate dcp profiles?

Long winded question I know. I'm short on time and low on energy and hoping I can get some quick direction. thanks!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 11:56:41 PM by Ligament » Logged
JRSmit
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 12:13:50 AM »
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I have a d800e (and a D70), use the colorCheckerPassport, i also own and used the QPCard.

I do like the DCP profiles generated with CCP.

I use the CCP wherever i can, not only for profiles (with daylight you do not need many profiles) but also as grey balance. I work with LR and set the the color temp with eye-dropper on the second brightest grey(white) patch.

What is it you do not like about the  CCP generated profiles?
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Jan R. Smit
Ligament
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 10:35:17 AM »
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Howdy!

I find the CCP generated dcp profiles to be too saturated and contrasty for my tastes, especially compared to the QPCard. The saturation is the main problem for me.

I have a d800e (and a D70), use the colorCheckerPassport, i also own and used the QPCard.

I do like the DCP profiles generated with CCP.

I use the CCP wherever i can, not only for profiles (with daylight you do not need many profiles) but also as grey balance. I work with LR and set the the color temp with eye-dropper on the second brightest grey(white) patch.

What is it you do not like about the  CCP generated profiles?

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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 12:55:09 PM »
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1. Can I obtain a meaningfully more accurate camera profile using Colorchecker SG and third party software compared to QP card and matching software?

trace Iliah Borg (he is a member on this forum, sent him a pm) - I bet he did a lot of experiments w/ both.

2. Which software should I use with the Colorchecker SG to generate icc profiles?

argyll is free... +utilities like rawdigger (www.rawdigger.com) & MakeInputICC ( http://sail2ithaki.livejournal.com/191061.html ) to be used w/ argyll

3. Which software should I use with the Colorchecker SG to generate dcp profiles?

that target has regular CC24 embedded (albeit may be w/ some slightly different patches colorwise) - so Adobe PE will (shall) work... but be warned... Adobe PE is using matrix part from some base profile, only changing LUTs ("2.5D" HSV tables) based on your shot... so you are not really creating a profile - you are adjusting some base profile - and as you might know Adobe itself does not use it for profile creation (that gives you an idea about the quality of it for a serious profiling)... not sure if XRite OEM software can detect CC24 table within Colorchecker SG shot.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 12:59:26 PM by Vladimirovich » Logged
JRSmit
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 02:18:18 PM »
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Howdy!

I find the CCP generated dcp profiles to be too saturated and contrasty for my tastes, especially compared to the QPCard. The saturation is the main problem for me.

What monitor are you using to come to this conclusion?
My experience is that when looking at an image with a CCP camera profile on a sRGB-ish monitor it may look overly saturated, but on a aRGB-ish monitor it will look good.
Simply because the saturation of most modern cameras can go significantly beyond sRGB and images are displayed on monitors with the conversion to the monitor colorspace in rel-col intent, thus clipping colors.
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Jan R. Smit
Ligament
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 02:21:01 PM »
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I use a NEC PA241W-BK calibrated with the bundled monitor calibrator and SpectraView II
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 02:34:28 PM »
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1. Can I obtain a meaningfully more accurate camera profile using Colorchecker SG and third party software compared to QP card and matching software?
Define what you mean and expect by accuracy.
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Andrew Rodney
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Stephen G
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2013, 10:02:31 AM »
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Don't know if you'll get more accurate / better-for-your-purposes colour from a CCSG icc profile over a QPCard dcp profile. Maybe technically possible but you'll be chasing diminishing returns down a rabbit hole. I use a qpcard to shoot artworks and my first test print out of Lightroom has the colour 95% of the way there.

CoCa is a free and quite user-friendly front end for Argyll that builds camera profiles. It'll generate ICC profiles from CC24s, DCSGs, QPCards, HCTs and more if you supply the reference files.

Can you generate dcp profiles from a DCSG? I'd love to know...
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 10:12:30 AM »
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my first test print out of Lightroom has the colour 95% of the way there.
so you took that piece of artwork, the print itself, some spectrophotometer and actually measured hell lot of control points on both ?
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Stephen G
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 01:03:43 PM »
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so you took that piece of artwork, the print itself, some spectrophotometer and actually measured hell lot of control points on both ?

 Smiley No I did not. My phrasing was a bit loose so allow me to rephrase: The colour that the QPcard profiles yield in print is subjectively very close to the originals I've shot. Once I've done a first test print I have very little work left to do to get a match that both an artist and myself are happy with.

The point was that the QPcard does a very good job in studio, with artist's pigments and decent lights.
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Ligament
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 02:06:24 PM »
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Ok, it seems to me for my personal needs QPcard is the best method. I like the profiles it creates and it seems like there would be a minimalon investment when profiling from the Colorchecker SG. Thanks all.
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