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Author Topic: Panasonic GX7 field report  (Read 3844 times)
John Camp
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« on: September 12, 2013, 02:50:49 PM »
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There's a link on DP Review to Michael's GX7 field report, but I can't find the report on this site. Where is it? There are some interesting discussable remarks in the report.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52152389
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meyerweb
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 03:57:13 PM »
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Yes, a good write-up. Every photographer's priorities and needs are different, so I don't necessarily feel the same about some of the features (or lack of a feature) as does Michael, but I always appreciate that he evaluates cameras as tools to make photographs, and not as lab equipment designed to replicate test charts. 

That said, I really don't understand the concern about not being able to use IBIS with OIS equipped lenses. Why does it matter?  It's not as if the IBIS offers some enhanced capability that OIS doesn't offer. (Oly's 5-way IBIS may, but the GX7 doesn't have that system.) Panasonic has been quoted as saying that their IBIS is not as effective as their OIS, so I don't see why anyone would want to choose IBIS over OIS when the choice exists.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 04:38:15 PM »
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> Unlike the top-of-the-line GH3 which is the size of an APS-C sized DSLR, the GX7 is true to the MFT gestalt

what gestalt ? the first ever m43 camera was APS-C like camera... m43 gestalt is less mechanics and optics inside the body, everything else is just a result... that's it.

> I know that it's hard to believe here in 2013, but Panasonic apparently forgot, or never knew, that ISO is the third exposure variable

another "levels in ETTR"... "ISO" is a postprocessing parameter (that you set in advance), not exposure variable
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 04:49:53 PM by Vladimirovich » Logged
michael
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 06:55:47 PM »
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Here it is...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/panasonic_gx7_review.shtml

Michael
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 07:20:46 PM »
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... "ISO" is a postprocessing parameter (that you set in advance), not exposure variable

Same difference.
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Slobodan

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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 07:37:13 PM »
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Same difference.

no, it is not... "ISO" (gain) is a postprocessing (in term of what happens w/ charge accumulated in sensel wells after the exposure is already finished) that you select before the exposure (and that's the source of confusion)... you know (shall know) that in some cameras "ISO" is just a tag in a raw file (no analog/digital gain applied)... even the mere fact that in some implementations that gain selection might affect the well capacity (at least what hardware/firmware will allow us to measure) does not make gain a part of exposure (mythical "third exposure variable" in addition to exposure time and aperture)... one of many parts in decision how to set 2 (two) exposure variables (exposure time and aperture) - yes, part of exposure - no.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:44:28 PM by Vladimirovich » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 07:44:56 PM »
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no, it is not...

Then you do not understand the meaning of the phrase "same difference."
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Slobodan

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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 07:48:36 PM »
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Then you do not understand the meaning of the phrase "same difference."
well then may be you explain us ? or do you know that in some cameras when you selected different "creative" modes - that also affects how camera meters (suggests 2 exposure parameters : exposure time and aperture and affects the OOC - just like ISO does)... so are you going to call that a 4th variable of exposure ? and we can continue and count 5th and 6th and so on... there is a difference between what exposure is (exposure time and aperture) and what you take into account (a lot of things) when you decide (or agree w/ what firmware suggest you) about those 2 real exposure components.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:51:56 PM by Vladimirovich » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 08:00:23 PM »
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well then may be you explain us ?...

Ok, here it goes. The phrase has two parts, "same" and "difference," the meaning of each is as follows:

"difference" = yes, you are technically correct, thus we accept there is a difference

"same" = nobody gives a shit damn that you are technically correct.

Clear now?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 09:12:22 AM by Slobodan Blagojevic » Logged

Slobodan

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trichardlin
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 02:16:23 AM »
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Ok, here it goes. The phrase has two parts, "same" and "difference," the meaning of each is as follows:

"difference" = yes, you are technically correct, thus we accept there is a difference

"same" = nobody gives a shit that you are technically correct.

Clear now?


Geez, why such negative posts.  The language really stinks up a nice site like this.
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E.J. Peiker
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 06:09:03 AM »
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The fatal flaw for Panasonic in the USA is their complete and utter lack of customer support.  Repairs go missing for many months, nobody ever answers a phone, replacement parts aren't available, accessories aren't available, etc, etc, etc.  Anybody doing any serious photography that might occasionally need some sort of customer support or repair should stay far away from Panasonic here in the USA.  It's unfortunate because some of their cameras are actually quite good given the limitations of m43.
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Neil_Brander
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 06:38:38 AM »
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Michael,

What I don't understand is how you can sub-label your review "the best MFT yet" and never mention the new OMD-EM1 offering from Olympus?  Sure, it is not technically out yet, but there are a number of reviews already posted on the web and all are very positive.  But, not even a mention of it seems strange.

Neil
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 09:11:26 AM »
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Ok, here it goes. The phrase has two parts, "same" and "difference," the meaning of each is as follows:

"difference" = yes, you are technically correct, thus we accept there is a difference

"same" = nobody gives a shit that you are technically correct.

Clear now?



yawn... go post something polical in a coffer corner, that you can do better and we do agree there sometimes.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 10:42:21 AM »
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... "the best MFT yet" and never mention the new OMD-EM1 offering from Olympus?  Sure, it is not technically out yet...

Yet, you do not see the irony?
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Slobodan

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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 10:48:38 AM »
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yawn... go post something polical in a coffer corner, that you can do better and we do agree there sometimes.

Sure. I've been planning for some time to open a topic there on hairsplitting bullies, unnecessary hairsplitting, or hairsplitting for hairsplitting sake. I am sure you, Isaac, and professorgb will be happy to contribute.  Wink
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Slobodan

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Pete Berry
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 01:10:39 PM »
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well then may be you explain us ? or do you know that in some cameras when you selected different "creative" modes - that also affects how camera meters (suggests 2 exposure parameters : exposure time and aperture and affects the OOC - just like ISO does)... so are you going to call that a 4th variable of exposure ? and we can continue and count 5th and 6th and so on... there is a difference between what exposure is (exposure time and aperture) and what you take into account (a lot of things) when you decide (or agree w/ what firmware suggest you) about those 2 real exposure components.

In my alternate universe, which I think is shared by most photographers, your ISO chimera is THE unique setting determining exposure - which in my book is the total number of photons reaching the sensor. Regardless of shooting mode, aperture and shutter speed selections are manipulated up or down either internally or externally to achieve the same sensor photon density for your desired outcome.
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Telecaster
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 01:20:26 PM »
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Ok, here it goes. The phrase has two parts, "same" and "difference," the meaning of each is as follows:

"difference" = yes, you are technically correct, thus we accept there is a difference

"same" = nobody gives a shit damn that you are technically correct.

Clear now?

Now that's among the most succinct, and blunt, summations of pedantry I've ever seen. Good job.

-Dave-
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Telecaster
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2013, 02:31:54 PM »
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Ok. Well, I'm for one looking forward to the GX7. I love the rangefinder-like shape (& VF placement) and the reduced vertical size relative to my E-M5 and the upcoming E-M1. I agree with Michael that the lack of IBIS (sensor-based stabilization) when shooting video is a significant blunder that Panasonic can hopefully address via firmware update. No Auto-ISO in manual mode...also a blunder, at least for people who do use ISO as an exposure variable.   Wink  Also hopefully addressed via firmware update. ETC (proper 1920x1080 video, no binning or line-skipping) mode...great idea. Seems to me the GX7 and 20mm lens make a great pocketable combo...this is mostly how I intend to use it anyway.

-Dave-
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meyerweb
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2013, 03:18:09 PM »
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Michael,

What I don't understand is how you can sub-label your review "the best MFT yet" and never mention the new OMD-EM1 offering from Olympus?  Sure, it is not technically out yet, but there are a number of reviews already posted on the web and all are very positive.  But, not even a mention of it seems strange.

Neil

Unlike many bloggers, Michael doesn't seem to write about cameras he hasn't actually used yet....   How would you expect him to do a comparison between a camera he has used extensively, and one that he hasn't?

Patience, grasshopper.
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trichardlin
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2013, 03:22:21 PM »
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No Auto-ISO in manual mode...also a blunder, at least for people who do use ISO as an exposure variable.   Wink

Too bad Panasonic forgot that in English, manual actually means auto.  Smiley
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