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Author Topic: file prints darker after monitor calibration, no new edits made  (Read 7915 times)
kkopchynski
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« on: September 25, 2013, 01:41:08 PM »
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Hello,

I have recently "helped" a friend who had a new monitor and wanted it profiled/calibrated.  Afterwards she printed a file she had previously printed, but made no new edits to the image.  She merely printed the exact same image.  But now it is too dark in blues and some greens.  My initial reaction is that if the image data is the same and sent to the printer again, the monitor profile doesn't get involved, and the print *should* come out the same. But it comes out darker.  How could the monitor calibration affect the printing of an existing file where no new edits were made?  If such an effect can occur, what aspect of the profiling/calibration needs to be changed?  The person is printing using Elements 9 on an Epson Artisan 835.  The profiling was done with Spyder 3 Elite, version 4 of the software.

Thanks for any insights.

Kevin
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 02:18:21 PM »
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How could the monitor calibration affect the printing of an existing file where no new edits were made? 
It cannot and didn't. Something else, somewhere changed.
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Andrew Rodney
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kkopchynski
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2013, 03:02:53 PM »
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It cannot and didn't. Something else, somewhere changed.

Thanks Digitaldog, that's exactly what I think, but I just spent about 2 hours trying to find that somewhere, something without much luck.
Actually, some prints did improve but others did not.  Elements seems to have a plethora ( OK, 3, but that seems 2 too many) of places to set the paper type, and I suspect in the past there may have been a mis-match.  The person had been getting by without much knowledge of color management (fairly successfully, I may add; she has had several exhibits) so I fear we may never know what was done in the past. Whatever magic that was happening is lost with the old computer.

Thank you,
Kevin
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RHPS
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2013, 05:09:03 PM »
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with the old computer.
Your original post implied that only the monitor was new. Are you now saying that the computer is new? If so, has the OS changed?
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kkopchynski
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 05:26:38 PM »
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Yes, correct, the computer is new, but the same OS, Windows 7.  The printer is the same.
The "before" picture, though, was printed from the new computer/monitor sometime before she decided it should be calibrated.
So both "before" and  "after", where after is darker in blues and some greens,  are printed from the same hardware and software. 


Thanks,
Kevin
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Floyd Davidson
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 07:04:53 PM »
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So both "before" and  "after", where after is darker in blues and some greens,  are printed from the same hardware and software. 

But not necessarily with the same configuration.

This sounds as if the print driver configuration for which profile to use for printing has changed.
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JRSmit
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 12:00:44 AM »
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Yes, correct, the computer is new, but the same OS, Windows 7.  The printer is the same.
The "before" picture, though, was printed from the new computer/monitor sometime before she decided it should be calibrated.
So both "before" and  "after", where after is darker in blues and some greens,  are printed from the same hardware and software. 


Thanks,
Kevin
Just a thought. Is darker greens and blues not indicating printing without a printer profile?
Are you sure the same printer profile is used?
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kkopchynski
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 06:23:36 AM »
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But not necessarily with the same configuration.

This sounds as if the print driver configuration for which profile to use for printing has changed.

Yes, hence the first reply "Something, somewhere" has changed.  The printer driver is most likely, since I found Elements set to "let printer manage color".   I had experimented with switching to Elements manages color.  I think there was improvement.  I was working remotely, so did not see the actual prints.  I did not have time to try different settings in the printer managed scenario. 

Thanks,
Kevin
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kkopchynski
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 06:39:07 AM »
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Just a thought. Is darker greens and blues not indicating printing without a printer profile?
Are you sure the same printer profile is used?


Unfortunately, I don't think we can be sure of anything.  With printer management set in Elements, the profile option is greyed out there.  The printer driver had a setting for "Epson Vivid" and (too many) places to specify paper type.  None of this to me is a real printer profile, but I can only hope that the printer's own driver is getting the profile correct for itself. 

In reading these replies and thinking over my answers it had occurred to me that a clogged light cyan nozzle could be a problem.  We ran out of light cyan, which ended testing for the day.

And, there exists the possibility that it wasn't really the same version of the file that was printed in both cases.   

Thanks,
Kevin
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Rand47
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 07:01:27 AM »
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Unfortunately, I don't think we can be sure of anything.  With printer management set in Elements, the profile option is greyed out there.  The printer driver had a setting for "Epson Vivid" and (too many) places to specify paper type.  None of this to me is a real printer profile, but I can only hope that the printer's own driver is getting the profile correct for itself.  

In reading these replies and thinking over my answers it had occurred to me that a clogged light cyan nozzle could be a problem.  We ran out of light cyan, which ended testing for the day.

And, there exists the possibility that it wasn't really the same version of the file that was printed in both cases.  

Thanks,
Kevin

Turn off "printer manages color" and use the appropriate ICC profile for the paper you're using in Elements.  Make sure the appropriate media setting for that paper is also set in the driver.  (I know that I'm begging the obvious.)

I think your friend needs to start from there if she ever hopes to have repeatable results, going forward.  Perhaps her lack of understanding of color management is the real genesis of the current problem.

I know that thrashing about with various settings isn't the real answer, even if it works - at least not for the long run. Best of luck sorting this out.

Rand

« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 07:25:17 AM by Rand47 » Logged
kkopchynski
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 03:53:26 PM »
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Turn off "printer manages color" and use the appropriate ICC profile for the paper you're using in Elements.  Make sure the appropriate media setting for that paper is also set in the driver.  (I know that I'm begging the obvious.)

I think your friend needs to start from there if she ever hopes to have repeatable results, going forward.  Perhaps her lack of understanding of color management is the real genesis of the current problem.

I know that thrashing about with various settings isn't the real answer, even if it works - at least not for the long run. Best of luck sorting this out.

Rand



Yes, This is the direction I want to take, now that others have verified my original thinking that the monitor profile is not possibly a problem.  I personally prefer and user program-based management rather than printer-based. You are not begging the obvious because looking in several places to check the paper type is exactly the issue I am going to need to deal with, once I deal with convincing her that she's been lucky until now with color management. 

Thanks,
Kevin
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kkopchynski
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 08:46:13 AM »
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A quick update:  The person reports to me that she has done some new edits, and the print version agrees closely.
She has agreed to chalk up the other problem as an unsolved mystery. 
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