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Author Topic: Alternatives to ColorThink (color management graphing software)  (Read 4204 times)
darlingm
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« on: September 26, 2013, 03:19:15 AM »
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Love being able to graph ICC profiles, colors from CGATS files (text files with color values from X-Rite software & others), and even images.

I like ColorThink.  However, there's at least one really bad bug in ColorThink, and development appears to have long stalled.  Most recent version was released two years and three days ago.  (Believe I read somewhere the original programmer moved on, but I can't swear to it.)

Any alternatives?

Can you do this with matlab?

Again, looking to graph images and color values in text files in a color management way - not just ICC profiles.  I don't believe these programs have the capability beyond ICC profiles:
* ICCView
* ColorSync
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 05:15:20 AM »
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Any alternatives?

PatchTool ?

Quote
Can you do this with matlab?

I assume anything can be done with MathLab, but it will require some coding.

Cheers,
Bart
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JRSmit
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 05:46:59 AM »
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Check out docbees profilemanager (and is free), tend to use that more than colorthink pro
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Jan R. Smit
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 09:30:58 AM »
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(Believe I read somewhere the original programmer moved on, but I can't swear to it.)
That isn't correct.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 11:44:05 AM »
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Hi
If you have Matlab, it can be done quite easily. There are plenty of colour imaging libraries available.

How experienced are you in Matlab?


iain
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PeterAit
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 03:15:41 PM »
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I like ColorThink.  However, there's at least one really bad bug in ColorThink

What's the bug?
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darlingm
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 09:17:15 PM »
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What's the bug?

I'm in the final stages of pinning it down, and ruling out any possibility something else is going wrong, like Photoshop is writing a TIFF wrong.  It has to do with erroneously extracting pixel values from images, that aren't actually in the image.  I'll be back within a few days with more concrete info.

PatchTool ?

I assume anything can be done with MathLab, but it will require some coding.

I love PatchTool.  Use it all the time.  Don't belive it has any type of 3D graphing functionality, though.  Don't mind coding, will be looking into MatLab soon.

Check out docbees profilemanager (and is free), tend to use that more than colorthink pro

I installed DocBees ProfileManager.  It seems to have the functionality found in ColorThink's Profile Manager and Profile Inspector features, and a 3D representation of the ICC profile, but I didn't see where you could do 3D graphing of pixel data like from a CGATS or image file.

That isn't correct.

I sit corrected then!

If you have Matlab, it can be done quite easily. There are plenty of colour imaging libraries available.

How experienced are you in Matlab?

Mmm... I've heard of it?  Grin  Lots of math & programming experience, so sounds up my alley.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 12:41:03 AM »
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I am also interested in MATLAB implementations. Perhaps you can share resources/scripts here as you go along?

-h
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JRSmit
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 03:01:25 AM »
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docbees profile manager allows you to load a image, for instance a testimage like the 28 ball of bill atkinson  or a b/w wedge or any other rgb image. However it does not(to my knowledge) allow you to open a list of color values like you can do in Colorthink.
What it does and what colorthink cannot(to my knowledge, and still waiting for an answer from colothink) is showing CMYK behaviour of RGB printer profiles, which is quite handy sometimes.
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Jan R. Smit
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 12:01:15 PM »
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What it does and what colorthink cannot(to my knowledge, and still waiting for an answer from colothink) is showing CMYK behaviour of RGB printer profiles, which is quite handy sometimes.
Can you expand upon this, I don't understand what you're asking for. Perhaps you can do this with the optional ColorCast module?
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Andrew Rodney
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MarkM
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 01:20:56 PM »
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Lots of math & programming experience, so sounds up my alley.

I've done a fair amount of graphing using Blender and its python API. It's not particularly easy because Blender is a little hard to wrap one's mind around (at least for me), but it gives you almost complete control of everything. You basically use python to put anything you want precisely into the 3D environment and then use Blender's tools for lighting, composition and rendering.

It's a much, much, (much) slower process than using a dedicated tool like ColorThink and better suited for times when you are looking for a particular visual presentation rather than quick visual interpretation of the facts. But maybe it could be streamlined.

I'm not a programmer, but you can see what I was able to manage and grab some of the code here:
http://www.photo-mark.com/notes/2013/mar/13/color-theory-blender/

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darlingm
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 05:13:30 PM »
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I am also interested in MATLAB implementations. Perhaps you can share resources/scripts here as you go along?

Definitely, if I wind up going that route.  Nailed down the ColorThink bug and found a workaround, so learning/using MatLab just went way down on my to do list.

I've done a fair amount of graphing using Blender and its python API. It's not particularly easy because Blender is a little hard to wrap one's mind around (at least for me), but it gives you almost complete control of everything. You basically use python to put anything you want precisely into the 3D environment and then use Blender's tools for lighting, composition and rendering.

It's a much, much, (much) slower process than using a dedicated tool like ColorThink and better suited for times when you are looking for a particular visual presentation rather than quick visual interpretation of the facts. But maybe it could be streamlined.

I'm not a programmer, but you can see what I was able to manage and grab some of the code here:
http://www.photo-mark.com/notes/2013/mar/13/color-theory-blender/

Thanks!  Nice article & site.  Have saved a link in my MatLab notes in case I wind up going that route.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 05:28:35 PM »
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Definitely, if I wind up going that route.  Nailed down the ColorThink bug and found a workaround, so learning/using MatLab just went way down on my to do list.
If youve got the image processing toolbox:
http://www.mathworks.com/help/images/ref/iccread.html
"P = iccread(filename) reads the International Color Consortium (ICC) color profile information from the file specified by filename. The file can be either an ICC profile file or a TIFF file containing an embedded ICC profile. "
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JRSmit
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 02:28:20 PM »
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Can you expand upon this, I don't understand what you're asking for. Perhaps you can do this with the optional ColorCast module?
Rodney , sorry for responding late, totally missed your post.
Docbees shows curves, amongst others TVI and primary color linearity.
The tvi curves were handy for me to see the original Epson 4900 paper profiles for their papers as they can be identical for different papers, f.i. enhanced matte, archival matte and velvet fine art have identical shaped TVI. So when using a media selection image, f.i. the one from Scott Martin, i found that if i use one of those three, it is valid for all three.
The Linearity curves were the only function that showed a problem in a papaer profile: the actual print was way of f (hard contrast, sort of high key), yet the soft proof was ok. (I do not know what the supplier did to get to this result, he never gave me an explanation. It made me buy i1 Photo Pro 2 to develop my own profiles. The linearity curves showed a strong exponential shape, way off from a more or less linear curve (usually with some ondulations). (looked like a gamma 2.2 was applied but then from light to dark)
I purchased ColorthinkPro after some pondering and posts on this forum, assuming that their device capability graphing would also show this problem. Unfortunately it did not, and raised this need as a point to Colorthink a couple of months ago, sofar no feedback other than a reply that my request was received.

So to summarise: my printer profile generation QC is first a quick check with Docbees, including loading some testimage f.i. a black/white step wegde. If no apparent wrongness i then use Colorthink Pro worksheet to load a range of color values stored in a list(provided by Colorthink), assign prophotorgb to it then the printer profile and look at the resulting change to the image, and also graph both to see in the 3D model how the colors are distributed over the profile envelope. If still no wrongness, then the final check is a softproof and then a print of a testimage, such as testimage from outback based on bill atkinson's testimage.  (I use Lightroom for printing)
Would like to have one tool to use for QC, will save time. (and also develop more understanding of how to QC printer profiles(what to look for and how to factor back in into the profile creation process, so i can get the last 10-20% of quality out of the profiling effort)
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Jan R. Smit
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 02:39:50 PM »
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Rodney , sorry for responding late, totally missed your post.
Docbees shows curves, amongst others TVI and primary color linearity.
Got it. ColorThink provide something like that when you open a profile and go to Curves and select Dot Gain. But not for the measured data. I used to use MeasureTool but I'm now using ColorAnt which I believe comes from the same company you're using (Docbees). I'm feeding it measured data not profiles. I usually examine the data before I even build a profile.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 03:15:34 PM »
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Andrew,

In ColorthinkPro i cannot get the dotgain curves to show on an RGB printer profile, or am i doing something wrong?

Checked on ColorAnts and it looks good, especially the 2D view, however a pricetag of EUR550 excl VAT is some serious money.
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Jan R. Smit
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 03:27:21 PM »
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Andrew,

Just a thought (before going to bed, it is getting late over here);  you mentioned measuretool in your reply. Colorport is sort of the successor to measuretool (i believe).
Would it be possible to use colorport somehow to view the measured data to show anomalities?
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Jan R. Smit
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 04:33:40 PM »
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For RGB, no dot gain in CTP.
MeasureTool did produce reports like dot gain, ColorPort has no such provisions.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2013, 09:13:16 AM »
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A free alternative is http://www.iccview.de/content/view/2/4/lang,en/
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