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Author Topic: Politics and Such  (Read 9232 times)
dhancock
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« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2013, 09:31:25 PM »
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Still, we still don't have a way for an old lady to defend herself without a gun against a strong hunk of muscle, or do we?

Do spoons make people fat?

Average homocide per weapon: http://scottkinmartin.com/post/40849734053/weapon-guide. I think we should ban alcohol. We know how well that worked in the past.  Roll Eyes

Debt limit - fun link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li0no7O9zmE
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Don't stop shooting!
Robert Roaldi
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« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2013, 10:07:24 PM »
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There have been two recent (within a year or so) mass shootings on US military bases. I've never been in the military, but I assume that a base has a fair number of people around who are competent with weapons. If they couldn't stop these guys, what are the odds of some little old lady or a school teacher being able to when the need arises?

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dreed
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« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2013, 12:15:10 AM »
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I don't like youtube (it absorbs to much time), so I looked it up online for an article. Basically, maybe Australia doesn't have the mass shootings.

The youtube clips are about much more than just arguing about gun violence:

The Daily Show: John Oliver Investigates Gun Control in Australia - Part 1
The Daily Show: John Oliver Investigates Gun Control in Australia - Part 2
The Daily Show: John Oliver Investigates Gun Control in Australia - Part 3

You really should watch them. None of the stories I've read covers all of the points that John Oliver visits.

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BUT, what about other violence? The cure for mass shootings is more individuals who carry guns, to stop the shootings before they make progress. The old lady can't defend herself against the big guy with the club (or vegetable peeler), if she doesn't have a gun.

Somehow I don't think that a gun in the purse of the little old lady is going to make any difference but that's just me. I'd argue that if a big guy with a club jumped on you and caught you by surprise that your gun wouldn't do you any good either - except maybe to give the bad guy something to shoot you with. Point being that if someone really wants to cause you harm that there is little you can do about it. So that leaves the only thing that you can do is to stop living in fear by not acknowledging it and abandoning instruments of fear.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:18:12 AM by dreed » Logged
RSL
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« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2013, 06:59:17 AM »
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There have been two recent (within a year or so) mass shootings on US military bases. I've never been in the military, but I assume that a base has a fair number of people around who are competent with weapons. If they couldn't stop these guys, what are the odds of some little old lady or a school teacher being able to when the need arises?

By direction of the President (in this case it was Clinton) all military installations in the U.S. are "gun free zones." The only people allowed to carry weapons are the cops. If you bother to check, Robert, you'll find that all of the mass shootings, including the military shootings, have been in "gun free zones." In a "gun free zone" the only guy with a gun is the murderer.
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RSL
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« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2013, 07:00:38 AM »
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Russ, the the only reasonable interpretation of your position is that you believe that Huffington hired Jimmy Kimmel to do that video AND hired paid actors to pose as "average Americans" in the said video. Is that what you are suggesting?

You don't understand that these things are edited? Slobodan, if you go out on the street with a movie camera and lights, especially if you do it in a big city, every crank in sight is going to rush over so he or she can be on TV. It won't take long to demonstrate that a majority of citizens believe the moon is made of green cheese.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 08:20:16 AM by RSL » Logged

Robert Roaldi
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« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2013, 08:44:07 AM »
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By direction of the President (in this case it was Clinton) all military installations in the U.S. are "gun free zones." The only people allowed to carry weapons are the cops. If you bother to check, Robert, you'll find that all of the mass shootings, including the military shootings, have been in "gun free zones." In a "gun free zone" the only guy with a gun is the murderer.

Most american inner cities (and non-american for that matter) aren't "gun-free zones", lots of shootings there, so it can't just be that. Got to be more to it.
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Robert Roaldi
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« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2013, 11:23:15 AM »
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I just wanted to apologize for my last thread entry. I too easily fall into cynicism and I am actively trying not to in my life, despite all the temptations. That previous entry would only lead the discussion into a pointless direction.

Let me address this it in a different way. There seems to be lots of people (I mean generally, not just on this thread) who advocate for the arming of the average citizen including specifically school teachers. We're not talking about Kabul here, or a Mexican cartel drug town, or some other 4th world hell hole with no civil authority on which you can depend and where citizenship seems to be breaking down, we're talking about modern day United States. Does it not worry you that you think it's a good idea to advocate that little old ladies have to pack iron or that school teachers should be trained in gun combat?  Leave aside the question of whether or not that could actually work in practice (you can probably guess how I feel about that), doesn't it worry you that you think this is a good idea or even that you think it's necessary?

What's the end game in this scenario? All citizens walking around with guns at the ready (safeties off?) just in care some bad guy enters the scene, is this what you envisage? Do you honestly think this is a good thing? Is that a place where you want your society to go?
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PeterAit
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« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2013, 12:39:09 PM »
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Recently in Florida there was a car chase. The car stopped and the police surrounded it. Despite the fact that the driver was unarmed and not doing anything threatening, they opened fire and let off over 100 rounds. A few of them actually hit the suspect. The remainder went flying off who-knows-where and, among other things, seriously wounded a couple of bystanders. This was trained cops facing an unarmed person - and we are seriously asked to believe that Joe Citizen with his 2 hour concealed carry course at the gun shop will actually be able to help in a truly dangerous situation?
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Peter
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louoates
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« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2013, 01:01:47 PM »
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I don't know why someone would deny another persons right to protect themselves and their family.
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RSL
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« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2013, 01:15:07 PM »
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Recently in Florida there was a car chase. The car stopped and the police surrounded it. Despite the fact that the driver was unarmed and not doing anything threatening, they opened fire and let off over 100 rounds. A few of them actually hit the suspect. The remainder went flying off who-knows-where and, among other things, seriously wounded a couple of bystanders. This was trained cops facing an unarmed person - and we are seriously asked to believe that Joe Citizen with his 2 hour concealed carry course at the gun shop will actually be able to help in a truly dangerous situation?

Joe Citizen doesn't chase cars, pull them over and start shooting. Yes, there are plenty of cop shops in the US that could stand a lot of retraining. But what you're saying is: keep guns out of the hands of the cops and Joe Citizen and only allow murderous criminals to have them?
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Isaac
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« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2013, 01:18:20 PM »
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I don't know why someone would deny another persons right to protect themselves and their family.

I think you do.

Someone would deny that persons rights, when exercising those rights infringes other peoples rights.
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RSL
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« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2013, 01:18:40 PM »
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Most american inner cities (and non-american for that matter) aren't "gun-free zones", lots of shootings there, so it can't just be that. Got to be more to it.

Right, in the inner cities gangs rumble and drug dealers shoot it out. Most sane humans stay out of those zones. It's interesting that New York City became probably the safest city in the U.S. once Giuliani arranged for the cops and the courts actually to start enforcing the law.
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Isaac
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« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2013, 01:32:01 PM »
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Average homocide per weapon

The cartoon makes a false comparison: "average" deaths per year are shown for auto accidents and drunk driving, but not for firearms.

The caricature "average" homicide numbers don't seem to match the record:

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Firearm—In 2009, 31,347 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States (Tables 18 and 19), accounting for 17.7% of all injury deaths that year. The two major component causes of all firearm injury deaths in 2009 were suicide (59.8%) and homicide (36.7%). Firearm injuries (all intents) decreased 1.9% from 2008 to 2009. The age-adjusted death rate for firearm suicide did not change from 2008, whereas the death rate for firearm homicide decreased 5.0% in 2009 from 2008.

National Vital Statistics Report pdf Deaths: Final Data for 2009
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 11:51:32 AM by Isaac » Logged
Isaac
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« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2013, 01:36:38 PM »
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The topic was National Parks Closure.

Discussion of guns has already been done and closed, and nothing new is being said here.
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Isaac
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« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2013, 02:15:40 PM »
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Most sane humans stay out of those zones.

Some of us have skills and wealth and find that doors are open to us.
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RSL
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« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2013, 03:25:14 PM »
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Ah yes, another believer in the myth that poverty causes crime. Even a quick perusal of the history of the great depression should be enough to dispel that idea.
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Robert Roaldi
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« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2013, 09:37:51 PM »
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The topic was National Parks Closure.

Discussion of guns has already been done and closed, and nothing new is being said here.

Quite correct. I regret getting caught up in this.
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Isaac
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« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2013, 02:01:03 AM »
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Most sane humans stay out of those zones.
Some of us have skills and wealth and find that doors are open to us.

Ah yes, another believer in the myth that poverty causes crime. Even a quick perusal of the history of the great depression should be enough to dispel that idea.

No, just another observer that nightly TV news shows ordinary people being killed by cross-fire and drive-by-shootings which send bullets through the walls of their homes. They don't get to "stay out of those zones".


Anything to say about National Parks closure?
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stamper
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« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2013, 03:54:31 AM »
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Ah yes, another believer in the myth that poverty causes crime. Even a quick perusal of the history of the great depression should be enough to dispel that idea.

Poverty is a crime?
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Isaac
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« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2013, 12:28:54 PM »
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How do a few dozen tea party nincompoops hold the entire country hostage in defiance of the will of the House and the people?

Short answer -- gerrymandered safe seats, immune from challenges by the other party; "challenges come from within their own parties and that tends to drive them further right or left".

Longer answer -- "A series of self-inflicted errors by the two political parties over the past 40 years have left party leaders with no whip and little power."
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