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Author Topic: Sony Alpha 7 and lenses...  (Read 5768 times)
dreed
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« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2013, 10:06:00 AM »
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a7 Test confirming some lenses have issues on the non r model:

http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=224

Feedback on that article (see Henry's comment) suggesting the r model may actually fair worse for some lenses

Best wait for more testing if you own any lenses that could be affected....

I seem to recall that Michael has observed similar results when comparing mounting M lenses on digital cameras not designed for them vs those that are (Leica and the Ricoh's GXR with the GR Mount A12.) This is thus not surprising. I'm sure that once Adobe and others have done the requisite testing that lens - body combinations will eventually be "corrected" for in software as far as is possible.
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Bernard ODonovan
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« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2013, 10:32:15 AM »
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I seem to recall that Michael has observed similar results when comparing mounting M lenses on digital cameras not designed for them vs those that are (Leica and the Ricoh's GXR with the GR Mount A12.) This is thus not surprising. I'm sure that once Adobe and others have done the requisite testing that lens - body combinations will eventually be "corrected" for in software as far as is possible.

Your correct, Michael did. If Michael has the opportunity to test more it will be helpful to affected lens owners.

Because SONY have elected a multi format ''alpha system'' approach, it does mean they may be designing FE lens with ray paths more akin to the A mount lens and adaptor for compatability reasons across their range.

This is great news to EOS owners, but not so good for M owners etc if affected on wide glass...

Their approach is quite clever really. NEX lens users can still shoot these bodies cropped. FE as standard and A by adaptor. The FE lens and A by adaptor back compatible with NEX bodies too...

For A mount sports shooters their existing lens and SONY adaptor will allow semi mirror reflex PDAF and one a7R reviewer has already suggested this combo is faster than a current alpha DSLR style body possibly due to the higher speed processing in these new bodies!
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Manoli
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« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2013, 11:04:03 AM »
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I seem to recall that Michael has observed similar results when comparing mounting M lenses on digital cameras not designed for them ...

Well, I'm not sure. It seems this 'ronscheffler.com' report is creating some confusion - he's reporting on the A7, not the A7R whereas MR in his A7r hands-on report was clear

quote
Using Leica M and Nikon Lenses

For some photographers (myself included) putting Leica M mount lenses on the Sony A7R may be reason enough to break out a bottle of Veuve Cliquot champagne and celebrate. Using an M to E adapter (I have a Metabones), virtually every Leica M lenses that I own works well on the A7R. Some of the ultra-wide and very wides do vignette, so be aware of this. There is no software correction for this, because we're mixing and matching. With other systems where the lens and camera are from the same company there's a lot of magic that can be done in firmware.

I had neither the time nor the full selection of lenses to test in detail what works and what doesn't, but I think it fair to say that most retrofocus design Leica M lenses will work on the A7R. When you consider that this camera has a high resolution EVF, focus peaking, intelligent Auto-ISO – so manual aperture lenses can be used in a semi-automated manner, and of course a 36 Megapixel sensor, this is hot stuff indeed.

In my opinion, anyone who owns a set of (or even a few) high quality M series Leica optics should seriously look at the Sony A7R. They make for a killer combination, and the Sony costs less then a third of an M240 camera. Just test that the lenses that you plan on using work as you expect before taking the plunge.

I also tried several of my Nikon lenses using a Novoflex adaptor (with aperture control ring) and they too worked just fine, including the superb 14-24mm Nikkor. There is some chromatic aberration visible on some lenses at some apertures, but a trip to the Lens Correction tab in Lightroom or Camera Raw / Photoshop makes short work of this.

Overall, I can not recommend the A7R highly enough for anyone looking to find a new body for their Leica lenses, and who find the price of an M240 a bridge too far, as I did last year. And for those of you with M8, M9 or M240 bodies, the A7R makes a relatively inexpensive second body as well.

unquote

Also, Metabones have posted the following warning:

Speed Booster® is NOT compatible with full-frame camera bodies such as Sony A7, A7R and NEX-VG900
http://www.metabones.com/buy-speed-booster
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Bernard ODonovan
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« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2013, 11:59:18 AM »
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Also, Metabones have posted the following warning:

Speed Booster® is NOT compatible with full-frame camera bodies such as Sony A7, A7R and NEX-VG900
http://www.metabones.com/buy-speed-booster


Typically, that particular product with ''Speed Booster'' in the product name is for larger frame to smaller frame conversion as you may know.

They may bring out a version for MF Glass if possible. The current MF glass version for example ALPA (swiss maker not Alpha SONY) is NEX frame only, hence such warnings...

It seems they do a version for Full Frame EOS to this mount:

http://www.metabones.com/info/105-info/180-metabones-introduces-third-generation-smart-adapter

Although one person says they are using theirs as a paper weight due to issues in another thread. Time will tell who makes the best adapter ;-)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 12:03:29 PM by Bernard ODonovan » Logged
Manoli
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« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2013, 12:43:33 PM »
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Typically, that particular product with ''Speed Booster'' in the product name ..

Speed Booster is a totally different product to adapters and the 'smart adapter' you refer to.
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barryfitzgerald
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« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2013, 12:47:38 PM »
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Your correct, Michael did. If Michael has the opportunity to test more it will be helpful to affected lens owners.

Because SONY have elected a multi format ''alpha system'' approach, it does mean they may be designing FE lens with ray paths more akin to the A mount lens and adaptor for compatability reasons across their range.

This is great news to EOS owners, but not so good for M owners etc if affected on wide glass...

Their approach is quite clever really. NEX lens users can still shoot these bodies cropped. FE as standard and A by adaptor. The FE lens and A by adaptor back compatible with NEX bodies too...

For A mount sports shooters their existing lens and SONY adaptor will allow semi mirror reflex PDAF and one a7R reviewer has already suggested this combo is faster than a current alpha DSLR style body possibly due to the higher speed processing in these new bodies!


Well as an A Mount user myself that adaptor with PDAF is bulky and quite expensive too, so add that to the cost of the A7 body and it's not that attractive price wise. Granted more attractive than the A99, but that model is seriously overpriced anyway and was from day one.

I agree the problems likely will not be issues with adaptors and increased lens to sensor distance (ie SLR lenses), but for native lenses that A7 presents a problem. It's quite likely going to have worse performance v the A7r esp when wider angle lenses turn up. Obviously native lenses again will cause problems with acute angles hitting the sensor.

Unless Sony have decided to make lenses "more telecentric" I say more because you can't do much for ultra wide angles here. Maybe that's why the lenses are "bigger than expected" but that would not make sense for a long term strategy either..why compromise lens designs on the basis of one sensor?

I can't help but think Sony have made quite a serious mistake here. IMO the A7 should have offset micro lenses too, it has to as this type of design simply isn't going to work very well for shorter focal length lenses. I can see this taking the shine off of the 24mp model, I'd imagine a few have already cancelled their pre-orders..esp M mount users.
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Bernard ODonovan
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« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2013, 01:19:39 PM »
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Well as an A Mount user myself that adaptor with PDAF is bulky and quite expensive too, so add that to the cost of the A7 body and it's not that attractive price wise. Granted more attractive than the A99, but that model is seriously overpriced anyway and was from day one.

I agree the problems likely will not be issues with adaptors and increased lens to sensor distance (ie SLR lenses), but for native lenses that A7 presents a problem. It's quite likely going to have worse performance v the A7r esp when wider angle lenses turn up. Obviously native lenses again will cause problems with acute angles hitting the sensor.

Unless Sony have decided to make lenses "more telecentric" I say more because you can't do much for ultra wide angles here. Maybe that's why the lenses are "bigger than expected" but that would not make sense for a long term strategy either..why compromise lens designs on the basis of one sensor?

I can't help but think Sony have made quite a serious mistake here. IMO the A7 should have offset micro lenses too, it has to as this type of design simply isn't going to work very well for shorter focal length lenses. I can see this taking the shine off of the 24mp model, I'd imagine a few have already cancelled their pre-orders..esp M mount users.

Reading between the pixels  Grin

I think all will be well, except for the most extreme wide non retro M type lenses..

The a7R with smaller more angle sensitive pixels may be seen as more sensitive although they have also stated it is being marketed as a higher end camera of the pair.. The main compromise they mention on the a7 was more plastic in the build as they did not think users would have heavy lenses on that model.

Not clear if they are expecting 3rd partner adapters and lenses. I think designed more for the performance of their own glass and adapted glass....

I am guessing this way they have a wider optimum focal range where very specialist offsets for the widest non retro M types would impact other lenses in the SONY range adversely.

Your correct to say this may mean it limits how small they can make some wider Lenses for this Camera. For this reason it would not surprise me if SONY bring out RX1 types with very specialist focal length and sensor to match... They cited keeping maximum apertures small as another method to keep the ILC Body FE lenses petite.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 01:28:05 PM by Bernard ODonovan » Logged
Bernard ODonovan
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« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2013, 01:22:21 PM »
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Speed Booster is a totally different product to adapters and the 'smart adapter' you refer to.

I was sure you knew, so a just in case to assist anyone who did not  Wink
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2013, 10:42:04 PM »
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Hi,

There is a considerable interest to put rangefinder lenses on the A7/A7r. Regarding wide angles this can be problematic.

Keep in mind, Sony builds these cameras for Sony lenses...

Leica went to great length to adopt the M series for symmetric,non telecentric, lenses:

- To begin with they developed their own sensor together with CMOSIS. It is said to be a shallower design than the Exmoors.
- Offset microlenses
- Color coding lenses so lens info is recorded in EXIF, making color cast correction easier
- Very thin IR-filter
- No OLP filter

The last to items represent a significant bit of refractive material in the optical path and would have severe effect on lenses having large beam tilt. Sony lenses have in all probability less beam tilt, and also take the "glass" in the optical path into account.

Best regards
Erik
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Bernard ODonovan
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« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2013, 05:09:17 AM »
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We are not alone in this part of the forum Grin

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=83191.0

My testing showed good results with M lenses starting at 35mm. Wider lenses are iffy. It very much depends on the lens' design.

Michael

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OldRoy
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« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2013, 05:43:07 AM »
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http://photorumors.com/2013/10/20/dont-buy-that-sony-a7-camera-yet-nikon-is-rumored-to-release-a-new-full-frame-hybrid-camera-soon/
And the show goes on.
Roy
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2013, 06:59:28 AM »
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Ah - now I just need to clean the dirt off of those old AI lenses!  I still have my FM2's - beautiful cameras.
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billh
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« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2013, 07:17:36 AM »
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Camera size comparison website

http://camerasize.com/compare/
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Isaac
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« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2013, 01:15:28 PM »
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afaict The a7 & a7r Sony E-mount uses lens-based image stabilization not in-body stabilization.

Does that make a7 & a7r less attractive for older lenses?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2013, 02:13:33 PM »
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Hi,

Yes and no. Sensor based image stabilisation is dependent on info from lens which older lenses may not deliver. I guess it is about focal length, center of mass and so on. I would also say that sensor based stabilisation makes the sensor more vulnerable. I wouldn't like to do wet cleaning on an IS sensor.

Best regards
Erik




afaict The a7 & a7r Sony E-mount uses lens-based image stabilization not in-body stabilization.

Does that make a7 & a7r less attractive for older lenses?
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barryfitzgerald
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« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2013, 02:35:51 PM »
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Huge fan of sensor based stabilisation, Minolta did something really good for the industry with anti shake.
Sensor cleaning? Cleaned my Km DSLR's maybe a few times, never an issue

All my primes stabilised for no extra cost, legacy gems like the Minolta 70-210mm f4..try getting an IS version for the meagre £130 odd for a good copy

In body IS is huge, for me it's proved a substantial longer term cost saving
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2013, 02:53:14 PM »
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Hi,

Did you do wet cleaning? I use Arctic Butterfly and it works for me. My concern is wet cleaning where you apply some pressure to the sensor.

I am on my seventh KM/Sony DSLR now ;-)

Best regards
Erik


Huge fan of sensor based stabilisation, Minolta did something really good for the industry with anti shake.
Sensor cleaning? Cleaned my Km DSLR's maybe a few times, never an issue

All my primes stabilised for no extra cost, legacy gems like the Minolta 70-210mm f4..try getting an IS version for the meagre £130 odd for a good copy

In body IS is huge, for me it's proved a substantial longer term cost saving
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barryfitzgerald
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« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2013, 06:00:21 PM »
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Wet cleaned a few times, eclipse fluid no problems to report.
I don't think you need apply much pressure it's very light and I assume the mechanism is fairly strong.

The sensor shake might actually help dislodge dust. But I am quite careful with lens changes anyway.
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Bernard ODonovan
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« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2013, 07:22:41 PM »
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You know, I get the feeling that the whole of the serious photographic community have been following our intrepid photographer on his 10 day money back guaranteed Nikon Df trial in Scotland...

Looks like he went for the SONY in the end  Grin





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