Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Seeking Guidance - Dark Green Prints with Epson 4900  (Read 723 times)
treidling
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« on: October 21, 2013, 12:42:05 AM »
ReplyReply

Hello all,

I am seeking guidance from the community. The basic problem is that prints on my Epson 4900 are both darker (requiring brightness +~30 in Lightroom print module to correct) and more green (corrects with ~+22 Tint in Lightroom develop module) than my screen. This is true for prints of numerous different photos under a wide variety of ambient light conditions.

Setup is:
- Computer: PC running Windows 7 with all updates
- Monitor: NEC WUXI 2690 (v1) freshly calibrated warm with latest version of Spectraview II software and X-Rite Eye One Display 2 puck. I'm happy to post the calibration parameters if anyone would find them useful but I can't see how they'd affect the Magenta/Green issue.
- Printer: Epson Stylus Pro 4900 with latest firmware, latest drivers, and Epson ink (not low). Perfect test pattern print
- Paper: Canson Baryta Photographique 310 roll (same problem on two separate rolls purchased months apart)
- Profile: CIFA_4900_baryta310_P_BK (downloaded from Canson website and installed)
- Application: Lightroom 5.2 (same problem occurred under Lightroom 4); Profile above selected in print module; No significant differences between relative and perceptual rendering intent.
- Printer Driver Dialog Settings: Media ("Premium Luster Photo Paper 260" as per Canson instructions); "No Color Adjustment" selected in order to turn off printer color management

I understand that canned profiles can be a little off based on manufacturing and calibration tolerances in equipment and media but this isn't subtle. I can approximate what I need using the corrections above with each pic I print, but it seems a little silly to go through the trouble of creating a color managed workflow and then to toss in a large fudge factor at the end. A custom printer profile seems excessive.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have to help me solve this vexing problem!

Best,
-Tom
Logged
Bullfrog
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 168


« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 05:18:39 AM »
ReplyReply

you don't mention colour space - are you by chance using Pro Photo?
NB: i'm far from expert on this, but I've had problems of dark green tones using that colour space.  May be a totally different problem.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 05:43:32 AM by Bullfrog » Logged
Christoph C. Feldhaim
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2508


There is no rule! No - wait ...


« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 05:47:54 AM »
ReplyReply

For the "prints too dark" problem my first wild guess would be your monitor might be calibrated too bright.
When I was haunted by that pulling my monitors luminance parameter down to 100 cd/m² things started working for me (I had 120 cd/m² before) - you might also want to check out your prints in brighter light.
Concerning the green there are a couple of possible causes.
The LuLa video series "From capture to print" helped me greatly in getting this kind of stuff right - worth every penny - and lightyears better than all those video tutorials you find out in the net..

Cheers
~Chris
Logged

mcbroomf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 374


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 06:35:05 AM »
ReplyReply

Is it only happening on that one paper type listed? (Canson Baryta Photographique 310 roll )
What do you get on other papers?
Logged

Mike Broomfield
Website
howardm
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 651


« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 09:20:25 AM »
ReplyReply

My hunch is that your i1Display2 calibration puck is near/at the end of it's useful life due to internal filters fading out.

See if you can borrow a more modern device just to check it. 
Logged
treidling
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 11:53:57 AM »
ReplyReply

Thank you all for your thoughtful suggestions. Here are my thoughts and more information:

Bullfrog: While I've heard that color space can be an issue with Photoshop, to my knowledge Lightroom uses an internal color space that is not configurable. And as I'm printing directly from the application, I don't think it's an export issue.

Chris: I've tried several different calibration luminances ranging from 140cd/m2 to as low as 85. I do wonder if there's a monitor setting I don't understand somehow because the luminence differences I observe in this range are not dramatic. The Spectraview II software purports to write directly to the monitor LUT and I'm not fiddling with the monitor controls, though, so... I've also checked the prints in direct and indirect sunlight and the problem remains. Not that it seems pertinent, but I've also tried several different color temps (5000k - 6500k) and contrast ratios (settled on 300:1). I agree that the "Capture to Print" series, which I've watched as one of the steps I took to try to solve the problem, is excellent. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to glean the answer from there.

mcbroomf: It's been a while since I printed on other papers but my recollection is that the result was the same. I'll check it later today and repost if there's a difference. Thanks for the thought.

howardm: That's an intriguing thought. I have a friend with the same monitor but different calibration software and hardware who doesn't have this problem. I'll see if I can borrow his puck, though it's actually older than mine (6-7 years old) by a couple of years. Do they really fall off that much?


Thanks again, all. I'd love to hear any other ideas you may have. Greatly appreciate the assistance.

Best,
-Tom
Logged
Bullfrog
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 168


« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 01:08:29 PM »
ReplyReply

I learn more on these threads than I contribute but this topic is something I always benefit from so anyway, here's a quote from the thread "prints too dark" which I encourage you to read.  It has so much information there, my extrapolation is just one idea of many great ideas given by other posters on how to trouble shoot "PRINTS TOO DARK".

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=82413.msg665769#msg665769

Quote:  Anyway, the way I actually set up a calibrated monitor and viewing condition on a practical basis is to use the monitor calibrator to define the monitor's whitepoint, blackpoint, color temp (I use 5000K not 6500K), and TRC, and then I physically move a pair of approximately 5000K Solux lamps in the background to create a print viewing condition that allows the printed image brightness to match the image brightness on the monitor, so I don't think our approaches to a proper print viewing environment are so different after all.  Unquote

My other thought:   Have you done a colour test?  Digital Dog has a colour chart on his website, which is what I used to identify where I had problems.   If it works with other profiles and not this latest one, wouldn't that suggest the profile is the problem? 

Yes, you are correct I use PS for plug-in to print and not LR.  So there's that.

Logged
hugowolf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 01:22:12 PM »
ReplyReply

The first thing to do is print a standard test image (unedited) using your usual workflow. If that prints fine, it rules out the printer and the profile.

The one at Outback works well: http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi049/essay.html

Brian A
Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2738



WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 01:34:35 PM »
ReplyReply

The first thing to do is print a standard test image (unedited) using your usual workflow. If that prints fine, it rules out the printer and the profile.

The one at Outback works well: http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi049/essay.html

Brian A
Absolutely correct.  You really have to isolate the problem.  The article posted talks about how to evaluate the resulting print (which is designed to help you evaluate your printer profiles).  The actual file you need to print is in the preceding article ...

http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html
Logged

treidling
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 11:14:42 AM »
ReplyReply

Thank you all again.

I printed the Outback Photo test image and it looks OK. I also printed it on a sheet of MOAB Exhibition luster (with the appropriate profile etc), which mostly made me remember why I like the Canson paper better. Smiley The difference between the print and screen remains, however. I think my next step will be to buy a small viewing booth. I've avoided doing so thus far because it seemed excessive for my needs, but clearly this issue is bothering me enough that it's a worthwhile investment.

Any suggestions for a relatively low-cost option for home use? I want to be able to stick the print up as close to the screen as it reasonable.

Once again, I greatly appreciate all of your support.

Best,
-Tom
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad