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Author Topic: epson 4900 shut off between print sessions?  (Read 2738 times)
Floyd Davidson
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« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2013, 12:50:17 AM »
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Yeah, seems to be a repetitive pattern with Floyd, arguing with those who have more than proven their expertise on this forum for many years. Pointless to discuss things with him, since he seems to know everything already.

The repetitive pattern seems to be that a few people don't want to be disagreed with, and even more so get very upset when they've posted an opinion unsupported by facts.  It really gets worse when the logic of opinions lacking facts is pointed out.

In this case, if the manuals were purchased by a fly by night outfit selling on eBay with a different name every two weeks, the remarks would be perhaps applicable.  But the business in question sells manuals from at least 4 or 5 dozen different companies, and has been doing so under one name for at least 10 years.

Do you really think it ls likely that if they are stealing IP, that nobody in ten years would have shut them down?  In particular when the documents they produce (they scan and package all of the manuals they sell) are extremely high quality!

Impinging them, or for that matter what I've said as a result of reading the appropriate documentation rather than just going on what I think I've observed, is perhaps fun, but it really does not help people asking questions here.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2013, 01:21:31 AM »
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Yeah, seems to be a repetitive pattern with Floyd, arguing with those who have more than proven their expertise on this forum for many years. Pointless to discuss things with him, since he seems to know everything already.
The problem is that when a newbie arrives an gives wrong advice it needs correction. The reputation of the forum is at stake.
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Farmer
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2013, 02:31:45 AM »
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In this case, if the manuals were purchased by a fly by night outfit selling on eBay with a different name every two weeks, the remarks would be perhaps applicable.  But the business in question sells manuals from at least 4 or 5 dozen different companies, and has been doing so under one name for at least 10 years.

Do you really think it ls likely that if they are stealing IP, that nobody in ten years would have shut them down?  In particular when the documents they produce (they scan and package all of the manuals they sell) are extremely high quality!

Impinging them, or for that matter what I've said as a result of reading the appropriate documentation rather than just going on what I think I've observed, is perhaps fun, but it really does not help people asking questions here.

There are numerous places, trading for many years, selling illegal copies of such things.  Some get cease and desist notices, some stop, some don't.  There's a cost to pursuing these things that frequently prevents extensive efforts to stop them.  It's always disappointing when a photographer (someone who should understand the value of protecting IP) chooses not to respect that IP.  I thought you may have been doing this unwittingly, but I'm now not so sure.

Now ask yourself something.  Why would they need to scan them when the originals are produced in an electronic format?
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Floyd Davidson
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« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2013, 03:23:23 AM »
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The problem is that when a newbie arrives an gives wrong advice it needs correction. The reputation of the forum is at stake.

If the reputation of the forum depends on the idea that an Epson 4900 won't cap the head until it is powered off, maybe it is about time some "newbie" with enough experience to know better arrives and sets things straight! Eh?

How would one know when a printer caps the head?   Well. reading the published documenation seems obvious.  So you think that is countered by claims of pirated documentation?  Not that it would make any difference at all about head capping, and not that there is any evidence either...

The real problem here is that I've pointed out a couple of very simple facts about printers, supported with very good references, and all you have left to argue with is emotional diversions in support of incorrect observations about printers.

1)  The print heads are capped when the machine is powered up and not in use.  Powering it down does not affect capping.

2)  Manufacturers fully expect and support having the printers powered up continuously, even for releatively extended periods of many days of non-use.

3)  Powering down a printer causes potentially excessive waste of ink due to automatic head cleaning at every power up.

4)  The electricity saved by powering down an Epson 4900 is pennies per years (vastly less than the cost of paying someone for the time it takes to power down a printer at the end of each work day).

Hence there are no valid technical or financial reasons to turn the printer off on a daily basis.  Not that is hurts anything, it's just unnecessary.

If you think any of that is wrong, argue with something other than claims my documentation is stolen and that I'm a nasty guy for saying something you didn't know about.
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Manoli
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« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2013, 03:26:15 AM »
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The problem is that when a newbie arrives an gives wrong advice it needs correction. The reputation of the forum is at stake.
Very much so, let's hope the administrators soon take note.
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Floyd Davidson
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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2013, 03:34:24 AM »
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Why would they need to scan them when the originals are produced in an electronic format?

For many service manuals there is no such thing as a PDF from the manufacturerer.
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Farmer
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« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2013, 04:10:12 AM »
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For many service manuals there is no such thing as a PDF from the manufacturerer.

It's clear that the 4900 manual they supply was not scanned.  The images are vector.  The text is fully searchable (possibly with OCR, of course, but the internal hyperlinks of the document can not be created via OCR) and linked.

There is no attribution to Epson or any information regarding publication, copyright, etc.  It has been removed as evidenced by the mismatch of physical page number to written page number.  They've gone so far as to embed their own website hyperlink at the bottom of every second page (although they've done it badly).
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Farmer
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2013, 04:16:53 AM »
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1)  The print heads are capped when the machine is powered up and not in use.  Powering it down does not affect capping.

2)  Manufacturers fully expect and support having the printers powered up continuously, even for releatively extended periods of many days of non-use.

3)  Powering down a printer causes potentially excessive waste of ink due to automatic head cleaning at every power up.

4)  The electricity saved by powering down an Epson 4900 is pennies per years (vastly less than the cost of paying someone for the time it takes to power down a printer at the end of each work day).

Hence there are no valid technical or financial reasons to turn the printer off on a daily basis.  Not that is hurts anything, it's just unnecessary.

If you think any of that is wrong, argue with something other than claims my documentation is stolen and that I'm a nasty guy for saying something you didn't know about.

1. Yes.

2. No.  You found one reference from a different manufacturer to say it was OK.  That said, it *is* OK to leave them running 24/7 - there's just no point and, as I mentioned previously (which you have convenient ignored) numerous things are triggered by a power down which can guard against problems that may arise from untimely, unintended or unexpected power downs (outages), brown-outs or surges etc.

3. Wrong.  The printer in question, does *not* perform a clean on startup.  It performs an AID check which is a far more ink efficient test.

4. That depends on where you live, apart from anything else.  Yes, it's true, the amount of power would be very small in terms of cost but for a casual user there is no cost of being "paid" to switch it off or on.  That's a sunk cost, effectively.

So the best balanced advice is to switch it off when you have finished printing for the day.

Whilst you have some individual points which are correct, your overall assertion is wrong and, frankly, pointless.  The OP received the correct advice with the first reply and nothing you've said since has added any further value.
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Floyd Davidson
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2013, 05:27:52 AM »
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It's clear that the 4900 manual they supply was not scanned.  The images are vector.  The text is fully searchable (possibly with OCR, of course, but the internal hyperlinks of the document can not be created via OCR) and linked.

There is no attribution to Epson or any information regarding publication, copyright, etc.  It has been removed as evidenced by the mismatch of physical page number to written page number.  They've gone so far as to embed their own website hyperlink at the bottom of every second page (although they've done it badly).

None of which is proof of anything though.  In fact it is entirely possible that Epson insists on it, or it might be the other way around.  Also it is a bit much to claim there is no attribution to Epson!

What I see is a company operating very much in the open for at least a decade doing something that you claim is not authorized (and by removing copyright notices would also be a criminal act).  Yet of the dozens of manufacturers whose manuals they sell not a single one has complained.  What reason is there not to believe they don't have a contract with each and every single one of those companies?

The point though is that we really don't know one way or the other,  and knowing would not change anything about the on topic discussion in this thread.  All you are doing is trying to distract from useful discussion.

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Floyd Davidson
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2013, 05:49:53 AM »
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Whilst you have some individual points which are correct, your overall assertion is wrong and, frankly, pointless.

That is how I see your view. 'nuff said.


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michael
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« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2013, 08:04:32 AM »
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A rapid decent into incivility.

Moderation all, please.

Michael


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Manoli
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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2013, 09:31:06 AM »
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A rapid decent into incivility.
Moderation all, please.

Michael

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=82268.msg666492#msg666492

quote
Assisting young people with understanding the philosophy as well as the technical parts of photography is quite real, and requires creativity to accomplish well. The older I get the finer my understanding becomes.  I don't see that as a reason to inject confusion into discussions with younger people.  In the world where I live the purpose of being an elder is to provide guidance and assistance to those with less experience.
unquote


Are you surprised?
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2013, 12:58:23 PM »
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3. ...The printer in question, does *not* perform a clean on startup.  It performs an AID check which is a far more ink efficient test.
Which takes a couple of picoliters per color, and only is performed if you have the AID function enabled, which many do not.  If a clog is detected then a clean is initiated but that would most likely happen whether you are manually managing this function or letting the Auto Ink Detection and Auto Nozzle Cleaning functions operate.


As far as capping when shutting down vs standby, and the assertion that when going into standby it performs exactly the same as when shutting down, I would be curious as to the source of that information.  I have seen these printers operated without the covers and cycled (my partner repairs ones that are out of warranty) and the activity when shutting down is more extensive than when moving into and out of standby.

The advice to leave it on all the time stems back to the 3rd post where the claim is about what's best for "modern" electronics.  If indeed the printer is  cycling into a power saving mode, doing all of the function of shutting down, then I see no logic in leaving it in standby mode to save the electronics.  If it's basically already shut itself down, why not just turn it off (or in the case of the 4900, let it turn itself off).

Finally regarding real world experience, I have operated Epson printers since the 9600, including getting the first 11880 shipped to my home state as well as one of the first 7900's.  I also sell and service Epson printers and have many users.  I used to leave them on all the time, but have found that shutting them off when not in use results in better performance regarding clogs.  I don't think the electronics suffer at all from cycling them off and off once a day (or less if you don't use them every day).
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enduser
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2013, 06:06:08 PM »
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This is not the place to make piracy accusations.  So glad I bought Canon.
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Mike Guilbault
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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2013, 09:32:14 PM »
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I was told from someone directly at Epson Canada that it is best to turn your printer off when you're done. It can't hurt.
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Schewe
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2013, 10:28:00 PM »
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Interesting to note that the 79/9900 printers predated the 4900 which comes with a default deep sleep shut down by default. So, it would seem that Epson decided to have the more recent printers go into deep sleep (essentially OFF) rather than the "stand by mode" of the 79/9900 printers. The duty cycle of powering down and back up isn't a limiting factor of the Epson printers...
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