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Author Topic: My issue with selective color adjustment and C1 support  (Read 4249 times)
sunnycal
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« on: October 29, 2013, 02:06:51 AM »
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So I have this issue in Capture One and I opened a support ticket. Here is how the conversation went.

Oct 18: My initial request

When I do selective color adjustment, the color around the edges is left unadjusted and thus creates unsightly artificat. I have attached a screen shot for your reference. Here I created a layer and created a mask on the top 60% of screen (so all the sky and protruding tree line is in the mask). Then I selected blue color using color selector and change the Hue and Saturation. I modified the selected color area on color wheel to included all tones/hues in blue.

However you will notice the area around tree (where I have put red x marks) where the color was not changed. It appears to me that the software is doing some kind of feathering near other objects. I have seen the same effect in other pictures. This forces me to abandon color adjustment in C1, export the image to another program and do the adjustment there. Is there any solution to this problem?

Oct 18. Capture One Response
Please simply fine tune the Color Adjustment. The area surrounding the tree likely has a small amount of yellow at a very low saturation and this is what you are seeing. You can verify the color's that you need to select by using the Color Readout tool.

Oct 18. My Response
I don't think that is the case. I modified yellow saturation in Background layer and it did not make any difference to the blue area around trees (but it did change the color of tree leaves, as expected). If you want I can send you original Raw file.

Oct 21: Capture One Response
Please use the "View Selected Color Range" when choosing the blue sky to see the color effected.

Oct 22: My Response
This is not the answer to my original problem. Please go back to my original query and instead o telling me obvious (or incorrect) things, look at the problem seriously.


Since then all has been quite on the capture one front. There is no response. I have attached the screenshot of the problem that I shared with capture one support. My purpose for posting is to vent about C1 support as well as find out if someone else can answer my question.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 02:15:55 AM by sunnycal » Logged

BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2013, 03:50:19 AM »
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So I have this issue in Capture One and I opened a support ticket. Here is how the conversation went.

Oct 18: My initial request

When I do selective color adjustment, the color around the edges is left unadjusted and thus creates unsightly artificat. I have attached a screen shot for your reference. Here I created a layer and created a mask on the top 60% of screen (so all the sky and protruding tree line is in the mask). Then I selected blue color using color selector and change the Hue and Saturation. I modified the selected color area on color wheel to included all tones/hues in blue.

However you will notice the area around tree (where I have put red x marks) where the color was not changed. It appears to me that the software is doing some kind of feathering near other objects. I have seen the same effect in other pictures. This forces me to abandon color adjustment in C1, export the image to another program and do the adjustment there. Is there any solution to this problem?

So how was that mask done? Gradient selection? Solid selection? Auto Mask selected? Can you show a close-up of the mask selection near the problem area? The Color Editor itself does not add feathering, it selects only based on color.

Quote
Oct 18. Capture One Response
Please simply fine tune the Color Adjustment. The area surrounding the tree likely has a small amount of yellow at a very low saturation and this is what you are seeing. You can verify the color's that you need to select by using the Color Readout tool.

Oct 18. My Response
I don't think that is the case. I modified yellow saturation in Background layer and it did not make any difference to the blue area around trees (but it did change the color of tree leaves, as expected). If you want I can send you original Raw file.

Oct 21: Capture One Response
Please use the "View Selected Color Range" when choosing the blue sky to see the color effected.

So how does the display look when you check that box? Can you show a close-up of the problem area? Have you tried selecting sky color closer to the trees?

Quote
Oct 22: My Response
This is not the answer to my original problem. Please go back to my original query and instead o telling me obvious (or incorrect) things, look at the problem seriously.

Well, that will surely get their cooperation ... They've told you what to do, and how to verify what's being selected and what not, and you say that's not the answer and that they didn't not look seriously at your problem...

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Since then all has been quite on the capture one front. There is no response.

They have told you where to look, and how to check for what's selected, and what's not. Without feedback on that, what do you expect next?

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 03:53:18 AM by BartvanderWolf » Logged
Paul2660
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2013, 08:45:54 AM »
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From the screen print, you used a new local adjustment and then made pick of the blue color within the layer. 

On the selective color adjustments, they can be tricky, especially in a situation like you have shown, where the blue sky is coming against a green/yellow object.  The issue I believe is the the blue color spectrum is very broad and you have to make sure you pick in an area very close to the branches, but that is still blue.  If you don't then you can get the artifact issue which is a form of haloing due to the fact that the all the rest of the blue in the sky was darkened except for the area next to the trees.  This effect will often not show up until you look at the image at 100%. 


I think that you can resolve it by going back to the layer you created, then zooming in past 100% and then trying to get a color selection very close to the green.  Judge the color you pick in the box that shows the selected color as many times I will not look at it and just try to work the color.  The selected color box will let you know if you were closer to getting a match.  You will have to get right next to the branches. 

You can also attempt a tweak to the hue of the blue to see if this helps. 

I couldn't tell if you shot the sky with a CL-PL or not, but sometimes that can help in situations like this by making the blend line between the tree and sky a bit easier to work with.

I feel that overall the Phase One color selection tool is superior to how LR does color adjustment and tend to lead with this tool first.  But there are times you run into situations where it take a bit more work. 

As of Phase One's support, this is a classic area where I feel a phone call would be a better way to work out the problem.  With them working the same file with you and showing you how they fixed the issue.  When I run into such a situation, often times I will contact my dealer first, not sure if that will work for you.  Phase One as most companies now, has moved to the non human phone contact tech support.  Phase has always been like that at least for the last 10 years.  I understand where this model works, but many times a simple phone call can also get the issue fixed faster, as so much can be lost in email tech support transactions.  I just finished a problem with Drobo that lasted close to a month that I still feel could have been fixed with a simple one to one phone conversations.   But I am over 50 and old school.  I believe Phase does expect the dealer channel to pick up a lot of this type of support. 

You can send me a copy of the file if you like and I can try to work it up.

Sincerely
Paul Caldwell
paul@photosofarkansas.com
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Paul Caldwell
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sunnycal
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2013, 02:47:43 PM »
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Selected Color:
If you look at the selected color wheel in my upload image you will see that areas that could be possibly a shade of blue are selected. So it should be quite clear that the pale blue around the trees is selected. Secondly, the pale blue around tree is still blue, and gets selected even when I dont increase the selected color range. Anyway I have attached the selected color view with this.

Color Picker:
I did pick the color from next to trees and then expanded the selection

Mask:
The mask is painted solid (is not a gradient). The mask view is also attached.

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2013, 03:53:04 PM »
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As of Phase One's support, this is a classic area where I feel a phone call would be a better way to work out the problem.  With them working the same file with you and showing you how they fixed the issue.  When I run into such a situation, often times I will contact my dealer first, not sure if that will work for you.  Phase One as most companies now, has moved to the non human phone contact tech support.  Phase has always been like that at least for the last 10 years.  I understand where this model works, but many times a simple phone call can also get the issue fixed faster, as so much can be lost in email tech support transactions.  I just finished a problem with Drobo that lasted close to a month that I still feel could have been fixed with a simple one to one phone conversations.   But I am over 50 and old school.  I believe Phase does expect the dealer channel to pick up a lot of this type of support.  

Absolutely. This situations would be better handled by a phone call to your dealer, likely with a screen share or in-person visit resulting, not a text-only conversation with the technical support department of the manufacturer.

Phase's primary source of support is the dealer channel.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 03:56:47 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 05:06:43 PM »
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Selected Color:
If you look at the selected color wheel in my upload image you will see that areas that could be possibly a shade of blue are selected. So it should be quite clear that the pale blue around the trees is selected. Secondly, the pale blue around tree is still blue, and gets selected even when I dont increase the selected color range. Anyway I have attached the selected color view with this.

Thanks for giving some more info to work on. The selection of colors seems extremely wide, which I assumed to be the end result of your trying to include all possible blues.

Quote
Color Picker:
I did pick the color from next to trees and then expanded the selection

Okay. So we can rule that out. However, I can even see, in the masked view, a halo around the trees. I have no idea where that came from, it was not likely to be in the Raw file so something else has happened to the Background layer or the copied layer.

Quote
Mask:
The mask is painted solid (is not a gradient). The mask view is also attached.


Good, so it wasn't the mask that missed some colors.

The only thing that could signal that some colors were not being addressed is the "View Selected Color Range" checkbox. Perhaps you need to make another layer to address the sky bordering on the tree line, although you say you used that color region already.

One final thing I can think of without looking at the Raw file itself, make sure you use the specific Color Editor for the masks (with a little paintbrush next to the panel name), not the general Color Editor (which doesn't work on masks).

Cheers,
Bart
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 06:47:29 AM »
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Just want to give this thread a post and declare my interest in this topic.
Halos have already driven me nuts with Capture One. They are pretty easy to produce with the HDR tool and I wasnít able to find out exactly what happens under the hood, because itís not just luminance but also color thatís affected.
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 09:37:01 AM »
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Sunnycal,

Do you have any clarity applied?
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David Grover
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sunnycal
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 12:57:02 PM »
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Yes, I do have clarity applied. The effect gets pronounced as clarity increases, but it is there even at base clarity. Also FWIW, the clarity is on background layer, and color adjustment is on a separate layer.
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sunnycal
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 09:27:48 PM »
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I played with clarity some more. If I apply negative clarity in a separate layer, I can reduce the hollow, but at the cost of lost clarity!

I added mask to cover only the affected areas and that reduce the hollow, but the mask can not be perfect (and I am lazy). So not a good solution, but at least a solution!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 10:15:53 PM by sunnycal » Logged

David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 10:44:29 AM »
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What method of Clarity are you using?
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David Grover
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sunnycal
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 09:00:04 PM »
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Punch. Changing the mode of clarity changes the shape of halo. Classic gets better results as the area of halo is smaller.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:04:19 PM by sunnycal » Logged

David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 04:53:00 AM »
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Punch. Changing the mode of clarity changes the shape of halo. Classic gets better results as the area of halo is smaller.

What value of clarity is applied?

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David Grover
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